The final truth about down swings.

[Mayhap]

Forsooth!
The gravy is wavy.
If you can't stomach the taste
Your poker meat will go to waste.

Nostradamus said this believe it or not.

/M

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
"if I stopped and left and came back to this room, I would KILL to be at this table. Since I'm at it now and I don't feel I'm playing badly, why wouldn't I stay?"


[/ QUOTE ]

That is a great thread you linked. I always liked that story too.

Which brings up another point for many players learning about swings. Many can find themselves in a great game, stuck, but not realize they are playing bad even though the game is great. They'll stop the assessment with the analysis of the game and not how they're actually playing in it.

This isn't aimed at Clark as I'm fully sure he's more than capable of telling if he's playing well or not. That's one reason I find his story inspiring. But I've seen many players do this without being honest with themselves about their own game at the time. Sometimes they will have started the session playing very well. Then for whatever reason they get stuck, and can't buy a hand. Then their game deteriorates a bit as the session and losing wears them down. It's something to watch for. It can be tough to pull yourself away from a goldmine. But if you have to, remember there will be other goldmines eventually. It's more important to get your head back on.

Sometimes this can be as simple as taking a little walk outside and getting refreshed. Coming back a little while later. Sometimes it means quitting for a few days.

b

[bernie]

That's why it's also important to remember it's not about dragging pots. It's about playing your hand as well as possible until the pot is pushed.

Actually dragging the pot is irrelevant as that's going to happen eventually if you're playing well. Even a casino has to face a hot roller on the crap table once in awhile. Doesn't mean they aren't making money from him on every roll of his dice.

b

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
"Saying that downswings are due to nothing more than bad play shows a huge lack of understanding of basic poker mathematics"

and what basic mathematics are these? understand you have to play well through the swing to overcome it, and thats hard to do when you cant handle one more loss, mentally.

[/ QUOTE ]

You started your original post with, "I firmly believe that downswings happen because of the player, not the cards" and then went on about how a person should quit after a few bad beats and go get drunk and laid.

Downswings are mathematically inevitable even for people who are crushing their regular game, so getting upset and quitting is just money down the drain. Not only that, but if you don't understand why downswings are inevitable, you will cause yourself needless psychological suffering when you aren't running well yet still playing well, which can cause tilt.

[allintuit]

""Saying that downswings are due to nothing more than bad play shows a huge lack of understanding of basic poker mathematics"

and what basic mathematics are these? understand you have to play well through the swing to overcome it, and thats hard to do when you cant handle one more loss, mentally."

I have no clue what the last sentence here means. Also, the basic mathematics are called statistics, if you've ever heard of them... They're quite popular these days.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]

1) Downswings happen! They'll happen to you. They'll happen to me. They'll happen to anyone who plays the game enough.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like loser talk to me!

[KaneKungFu123]

its amazing how many people post these long winded simplistic essays with no new ideas.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to campaign for the reality of the situation here. Every day I see tons of threads about "running bad" and "down swings". More and more 2+2ers seem to be feeling sorry for themselves whenever the cards just don't seem to be falling they way they would like. They want to know if it will end. They want to know what to do next. They want to quit poker all together. The truth of the situation is they might as well quit.

There are a couple things many of you have failed to acknowledge when you decided to start playing poker.
1) Downswings happen! They'll happen to you. They'll happen to me. They'll happen to anyone who plays the game enough. They'll even happen to the best players in the world. It is inevitable. If this was realized by those of you who are thinking "I knew that" right now we would have all these sob stories all over the forums.
2) The cause of the down swing may be you. I'm not going over the line by saying more than half of the members of this forum are losing players. Quit blaming the seat, luck, the deck, the fish accross the table from you. If you can't put the blame where it will most often need to be (on your own shoulders) you have no business playing poker.

The most common answer I see to these questions about what to do and when will it end are met too many times with "Take A Break". This is insane. Taking a break may be the way to go in some of these situations, but the truth is this...
If you were aware of the the items mentioned above and by being aware had the correct mind-set it wouldn't be an issue. You don't need a break. You don't need a nap. You need to wake up and accept the realities of your situation. Once you've done that you need to do the following.
1) Stop feeling sorry for yourself.
2) Evaluate your game. Study hand histories, post hands here on the forums, ask questions.
3) Study up. Read and re-read your poker books, read posts here on the forums, take dvantage of the 2+2 Magazine.
4) Get on the tables and correctly apply what you've learned!!

It's time to man up everyone. Put the blame where it belongs. Get your mind in tune with reality. Expect down swings and bad runs to happen. Deal with them and get through it. Continue to improve. There's no need for a break because you can't handle these things. If you need to take a break because of these things give it up. Poker is not for you.

Cheers,

deacsoft

[/ QUOTE ]

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
its amazing how many people post these long winded simplistic essays with no new ideas.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to campaign for the reality of the situation here. Every day I see tons of threads about "running bad" and "down swings". More and more 2+2ers seem to be feeling sorry for themselves whenever the cards just don't seem to be falling they way they would like. They want to know if it will end. They want to know what to do next. They want to quit poker all together. The truth of the situation is they might as well quit.

There are a couple things many of you have failed to acknowledge when you decided to start playing poker.
1) Downswings happen! They'll happen to you. They'll happen to me. They'll happen to anyone who plays the game enough. They'll even happen to the best players in the world. It is inevitable. If this was realized by those of you who are thinking "I knew that" right now we would have all these sob stories all over the forums.
2) The cause of the down swing may be you. I'm not going over the line by saying more than half of the members of this forum are losing players. Quit blaming the seat, luck, the deck, the fish accross the table from you. If you can't put the blame where it will most often need to be (on your own shoulders) you have no business playing poker.

The most common answer I see to these questions about what to do and when will it end are met too many times with "Take A Break". This is insane. Taking a break may be the way to go in some of these situations, but the truth is this...
If you were aware of the the items mentioned above and by being aware had the correct mind-set it wouldn't be an issue. You don't need a break. You don't need a nap. You need to wake up and accept the realities of your situation. Once you've done that you need to do the following.
1) Stop feeling sorry for yourself.
2) Evaluate your game. Study hand histories, post hands here on the forums, ask questions.
3) Study up. Read and re-read your poker books, read posts here on the forums, take dvantage of the 2+2 Magazine.
4) Get on the tables and correctly apply what you've learned!!

It's time to man up everyone. Put the blame where it belongs. Get your mind in tune with reality. Expect down swings and bad runs to happen. Deal with them and get through it. Continue to improve. There's no need for a break because you can't handle these things. If you need to take a break because of these things give it up. Poker is not for you.

Cheers,

deacsoft

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats because even after all the information out there, people still whine about their downswings. Even vets can have the basics rehashed for them now and then.

[Bluffoon]

Deac I think this is a good goal, a place for everybody to get. The fact is, with experience, downswings become somewhat humdrum.

But if you are not experienced and especially if you are not sure that you are a winning player or if you are beating a particular limit or game they can be worrisome.

So I think your advice is sound but remember this is a place where we alot of us are learning to become poker players.

[El Cuchara]

I would like to point out that, although they are slightly irritating, no one makes you read the threads about downswings and bad beats, if they bother you, don't read them.

When I stumble across a person who is going through a downswing I advise they take a break. I do this because taking a break helped me, i don't mean taking a shower, getting laid, etc. I mean not playing a hand for 3-4 weeks. I also say that while you're on break read. Start with GSIH or SSH, and then when you come back, start out in the micros again. I agree that just taking a break is not going to solve the problem, but I think laying out for a while can help clear your head and let you accurately analyze your play. I think in general most players feel that they make the right moves while they are playing. If they didn't think they were correct, than they probably wouldn't make those moves. I think it requires some time away from the game and reading, "A10 is a bad hand to play out of position or after a raise" to realize that it is a marginal hand unless in an ideal situation. If you're playing, and reading, that probably doesn't sink in.

I would also like to say that there is no need to flame/rant about newbs, or others posts about common questions/ bad beats/ etc. I agree that it can be annoying, but without new people becoming involved in the game of poker, then it is safe to say it would eventually die out. Even though the questions can be irritating, if they bother you, don't read them, don't flame them either. You need the lesser players in order to make $$.

This post brings up some very good points on how to correct downswings, and is def. a good one.