Robert Jordan died.

[Bostaevski]

Sorry I wasn't attacking you personally

If you go on Amazon and look at the 1-star reviews, that's how I felt about this series. I would say read the first 3 or 4 books if you must.

Generally the stories have enough potential to keep the books interesting but the problem is how Goodkind goes about writing them.

Here's someone's review of Temple of the Winds and it pretty well sums up the things about these books that just infuriate me

[ QUOTE ]

To design characters: Make up names, give them different clothes and genders, and then make sure they all act the same. All should be incredibly stubborn, to the point of abandoning any sense of self-preservation.

For conversations that will flesh out your flimsy plot: All of your stubborn characters should argue with each other for as long as possible before any progress is made. For example:

"I intend to raid the castle."
"All by yourself? That's stupid!"
"Stupid it may be, but I plan to raid the castle."
"You'll be killed!"
"No, I won't. Stop trying to delay me."
"I have to delay you, because otherwise, you'll be killed!"
"No I won't!"
"Yes you will!"
"No!"
"Yes!"
[Two pages later:]
"Guards! Lock her up! I'm going to raid that castle now."
"Yessir!"

This works especially well if, like Goodkind, you seem to have some sort of power/control complex and an obvious interest in BDSM. No matter how pointless the argument, if you throw in some women in skin-tight leather with flails, you'll be guaranteed the "Gor" audience, at least.

Occasionally you may write something that seems profoundly emotional to you. It might not be so obvious to your readers, though, so make sure they understand emotional states by using repetition:
"I'm going to kill her. Just give me the chance, and I'll cut her to pieces. I am filled with wrath. I'll strike her down on this very spot. Her blood will flow across the floor, because I'm so angry, I'm going to kill her." Etc. This litany may be interrupted with dialogue, so make sure to resume and repeat it in different ways until the reader gets the point.

...

Plot twists: A really good plot twist requires lots of unnecessary confusion leading to things that would have happened anyway. (Seriously! Think about it!)


[/ QUOTE ]

[adsman]

When I was a teenager fantasy was my favorite genre, and I read them all. I became bored with the whole genre after a while when I realised that just about every single fantasy series was along the same themes;

Young dude living in a small out of the way place has hidden powers that can save the world from the horrible malignant evil that has chosen this time to rear its ugly head.

Bor-ing. Just a rehash of Tolkien, over and over again, yet with different names and a different map. Jordan was just the same as the others. I'm sorry that he's died but the fantasy genre won't miss him as there are another hundred clones to take his place.

[C-Dog]

[ QUOTE ]
When I was a teenager fantasy was my favorite genre, and I read them all. I became bored with the whole genre after a while when I realised that just about every single fantasy series was along the same themes;

Young dude living in a small out of the way place has hidden powers that can save the world from the horrible malignant evil that has chosen this time to rear its ugly head.

Bor-ing. Just a rehash of Tolkien, over and over again, yet with different names and a different map. Jordan was just the same as the others. I'm sorry that he's died but the fantasy genre won't miss him as there are another hundred clones to take his place.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should try the Martin series then. Very few random powers there, just smart political maneuvering, and a lot of luck. I am not even sure there is actually an "Evil" in that series.

C-Dog

[amplify]

adsman, this is not becuase fantasy writers just decided to make this the dominant theme. See Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces. It's the central theme of myth. I find almost all of this fantasy stuff boring as hell myself, but I'm not mad at it for being that way.

[fuzzwonder]

wheel of time author? is this the same series of books where there was an evil chicken? what happened to him was a terrible fate, what happened to the books was not.
george r.r. martin ftw.

[adsman]

Yeah, I might give Martin a try. My brother recently gave me "Jonathon Strange & Mr Norrel" and that was pretty slick and a nice change for fantasy.

Amplify,

Fantasy is not myth per se. It has elements, but myth can be woven into modern settings. A good argument can be made that a lot of crime fiction is based on myth. I think Cormac McCarthy is a good example of this.

Most fantasy writers are incredibly lazy. They slap across epic themes on a grand scale when they don't realise that truly good writing involves getting down into the nitty gritty and saying it in as few words as possible. One of the few fantasy writers that I came across who did this was Jack Vance. Another was Ursula le Guinn who got ripped off big time by Ms Harry Potter.

[TwoNitty]

+1 for Martin. I really hope the HBO series is good (assuming they actually make it)

RIP Jordan-you kept me awake in many college classes.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
Most fantasy writers are incredibly lazy. They slap across epic themes on a grand scale when they don't realise that truly good writing involves getting down into the nitty gritty and saying it in as few words as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but condemnation of the lowest common denominator of a genre is not a condemnation of the genre.

[amplify]

and bringing up Cormac McCarthy in a thread about Robert Jordan is like bringing up Leonardo da Vinci in a Konrad thread.

[swingdoc]

@ RJ haters

What makes you guys think that the motive for WOT becoming bloated was the author's greed? Every great fantasy writer I've ever read about has wanted to write more and more about the world that they've created because they'rd fascinated by this world. The only thing that saves readers from a whole slew of overly bloated crap (and no real decent books) is the editing. Just look at all the other books Tolkien wrote about middle earth: Simarillion, Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Unfinished Tales, The Road Goes Ever On. I'm not criticizing Tolkien here at all, just pointing out that great fantasy writers love their own worlds so much that it's natural for them to write pages and pages about these worlds that most people wouldn't really want to read. If you want to blame anyone, blame the editors of WOT for not being more firm.

@ Martin fans

I love(d) this series but the delays with the most recent book have seriously started to piss me off. Feast for Crows was supposedly only half of the intended 4th book in the series as Martin realized that the book would simply be too long. According to his website he alrady had the second half mostly done when FFC was published in September '06. Then delays and more delays. I seriously began to believe that Jordan was going to finish his 12th book first, amyloidosis and all. I know, I'm impatient and all. However, if a man on the brink of death is making better progress than you, you'd better get your ass in gear.

@ Goodkind fans

Really??! These books are so poorly written it's unbelievable that they were actually published in this form. Although to be fair to the editors, they would have had to have re-written practically every sentence to fix Goodkind's hamfisted juvenile writing.

@ Adsman

Fortunately some of the newer authors have started to shy away from the tried and true formula that you describe. Lynch's Lies of Locke Lamora is a shining example. Hopefully this trend continues.