Poker In Colorado?

[chim17]

Lived here my whole life.. the only games worth playing is the 5-5 choice at Gilpin. Some great locals that make the game a lot of fun.

I need to go see Jamal again.

[Ultra Violet]

One of the reasons I enjoy the Gilpin so much is the dealers are really awesome. (Especially considering all the yahoos they deal with!)

I was recently playing a cash game before a tournament and an older gentleman was STEAMING about some bad beat he had just gotten in an earlier tournament and could not let it go. "What was that guy doing, callling my amazing bet with his crap hand? Doesn't he know who I am? How could that fool think he could beat me? Only a complete moron would make that call after someone like makes a bet like that. Blah, blah, blah..."

He wasn't getting a lot of sympathy from the table and he kept getting up from the table and pacing and ranting. After getting up and down 4-5 times in 10-15 minutes, he came and sat down again, still throwing his tantrum to anyone who would listen. Finally, our dealer in the cash game told him the most genius thing I have ever heard in a casino:

"Sir, we can all tell that you are a very smart and intelligent man. I just want to give you one piece of advice. Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that the other players at the table are as good of a player as you."

How awesome is that? I about fell off my chair. I don't know the guy's name, but he is my new favorite dealer!
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[mr.bum]

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RR do you know one person who is up there 4 plus nights a week and keeps simple records of wins and losses? saying "I have not had a losing session yet in Black Hawk, but I have only played here 5 times"

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I do. And no I won't be getting the records and sharing them here becasue what people do in a casino is there business. You have to look at it logically; if a smaller game with a larger rake in another market is known to be beatable this game would have to be.

5 session is plenty for an experienced player to know if they have an edge. After you have been playing and know the game you don't need to use a statistical test to evaluate a game. The game existed long befor people were playing on-line and looking at large samples. If you cannot watch a game and determine if you would have an edge in that game you need to look for smaller games. And I don't think you will find any mod on this site that would say bad players make the game harder to beat. This is just another version of "I need to play higher so they will respect my raises."

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and this seems like a self interested gilpen floor person spewing biased statements. OMG u perceive your self to have an edge against the field in a black hawk 2-5game?i actually think i may have an edge my self.i will be in co in december and we should crossbook. i am not rich but could play this 5x or 8x if you wanted. this not a hu 4 rollz troll. but u r trying to say all my poor outlook on BH poker is based on the fact that i am not capable of figure out an effective strat against the some of the weakest competition that exists.i never asked u to out some one or post their all their results...but any winning reg could tell u their bb/hr very easily i was just assuming u would be friends with many of these winning BH grinders.i thought you could provide some insight as to what a competent 2-5 spread holdem player could expect to make(not myself obv).

[RR]

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i was just assuming u would be friends with many of these winning BH grinders.

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I came here as a free agent if you will. I don't know nearly enough of my players as I have been busy with things like explaining to an entire state thate there are no magical mucks and there is no rule that keeps the floor from ruling in the interest of fairness. I cannot cross book with you as side bets are illegal in state [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[mr.bum]

meh...i have not slept in quite a while and been a bit "over confrontational"on the internets this evening. my bad if i escalated this. i have just sat at those tables for a large chunk of time and and got to know several "regulars"...my poker ability's maybe questionable to u but i am perfectly capable of observing things.and i did not see any one beat this game consistently.

[jackhigh]

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meh...i have not slept in quite a while and been a bit "over confrontational"on the internets this evening. my bad if i escalated this. i have just sat at those tables for a large chunk of time and and got to know several "regulars"...my poker ability's maybe questionable to u but i am perfectly capable of observing things.and i did not see any one beat this game consistently.

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I've been playing up there for 3 years (boredom/gambling fix) with similar results. I know of no one who has "beaten" these games. Mathematically it is probably near impossible with the high rake,jackpot, tips, etc. Over $200 comes off the table every hour!!! In 5 hours 10 people will lose their $100 buyin to THE HOUSE!!

People that say these games are beatable are simply dreamers or liars... simply squawkin the low limit party line (most have never played 2-5 spread in Blackhawk - different than a 2-4 game gents!

Simple as this... when there are 5-7 in a hand you have to show the best hand at showdown. Most callers are getting the proper odds to chase to the river. Since you have to show down the best hand... and players are getting odds to chase... the cards will eventually even out... and the only one making money is the house.

[The Bus Driver]

The fact is that the games in Black Hawk are definitely beatable, but very high variance and can generate some of the most frustrating poker experiences you'll ever have. The rake is huge, but the same donkeys everyone complains about drawing out on them are exactly what gives the game a chance of being profitable. You need to adjust and know what hands these kinds of games favor and how to pump the pot when it's your turn.

I don't like to throw around accusations of collusion, but I would say that I tend to believe the collusion stories, especially at the Lodge. Sorry to say it, Randy, but I've seen enough fishy things that I can't dismiss it and I refuse to play there without good reason or to give it a fair shot every once in a great while to show me that it's improved. I think it's probably getting better than it was a couple years ago, but I still just don't feel comfortable there, even for what I view as purely entertainment poker. I wish it was different, because it's the biggest room in town and I know a guy or two that works there, but that's just how it is.

The Gilpin is another story. I love the Gilpin staff. I think it's the best room around - except for one very important thing. The games tend to be not nearly as good as the games in other rooms. It's unfortunate that one of the things that makes it so good, the isolated location, also seems to be quite a hindrance to the quality of the games.

I've essentially given up on Black Hawk, except that I just have to get out and actually touch some cards every once in a while, so it goes in spurts. The time I do spend up there now is spent almost entirely at Ameristar. They have decent games, good dealers, good waitresses, and a great (comped) burger.

Anyway, let's get back to bitching about the retarded $5 cap. If they'd just have the sense to make it something reasonable, Black Hawk and Central City could be a sweet destination. Tourists would come from out of state for vacation, hit the casinos, go skiing, it could be huge. When Ameristar came in, I was kind of hoping that maybe a another big corporation or two would also come in and have enough weight to throw around to get something done on this front. I thought maybe they'd not want to screw around with this lame $5 crap. At least raise it where it makes sense, like poker and blackjack.

Also, I find it a little bit amusing that the Ameristar ad that has the girl replicating the American Beauty pose with the redbirds - am I mistaken, or is she laying on a craps table? There's no craps in Black Hawk!

[RR]

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Simple as this... when there are 5-7 in a hand you have to show the best hand at showdown. Most callers are getting the proper odds to chase to the river. Since you have to show down the best hand... and players are getting odds to chase... the cards will eventually even out... and the only one making money is the house.


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So putting in money without the odds to call preflop doesn't hurt them?

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(most have never played 2-5 spread in Blackhawk - different than a 2-4 game gents!


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So you think not having the bet double on the turn gives people better odds to draw?

Implicit collusion does exist, but the spread limit structure is perfect for beating these types of games. I have been in this business a long time and have been hearing some version of "these guys play so bad I can't beat them" for years. The rake is heavy, but Abdul (old school posters will know who he is) did a piece many years ago about oppressive rakes and was convincing that some awefully big rakes can e overcome with weak enough players. If I was at home I would try to find it, but I don't remmeber if it was on RGP or 2+2.

[RR]

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Also, I find it a little bit amusing that the Ameristar ad that has the girl replicating the American Beauty pose with the redbirds - am I mistaken, or is she laying on a craps table? There's no craps in Black Hawk!


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I noticed taht right away when I played there the first time.

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I don't like to throw around accusations of collusion, but I would say that I tend to believe the collusion stories, especially at the Lodge. Sorry to say it, Randy, but I've seen enough fishy things that I can't dismiss it and I refuse to play there without good reason or to give it a fair shot every once in a great while to show me that it's improved.

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I have heard the same stories, but I have heard the same stories abotu the room with the most action in every market I have worked (Bellagio in Vegas, Commerce in LA, Horseshoe in Tunica, and even the Colorado Belle in Laughlin). When there is money involved people will try to cheat. There was an incident recetnly at the Lodge, but the cheaters were caught and cited by gaming; this is a far cry from the casino "doing nothing" as was alleged in another post.

[NextinLine]

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they are allowed to do this as long as there is no hand taking place, there is no rule (usually) about people talking in a foreign language in between hands.


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Quite simply stated, the rule is "English only at the table". Not at the table if you're not in hand or between. The rule is that if you're at the table, you speak English. The dealers do a piss poor job of enforcing this, because they can expect a min $5 per hand tip.

I used to think the Lodge is the best room up there, but they do nothing to dispel collusion. Someone earlier mentioned some people being cited by gaming, and defending the casino.. Bottom line is this: CGC busted them, not the casino. Last time I went to the hill was March and we were 6 handed discussing a chop. Dealer stated she can't let us do it, that "gaming narcs" were around and she can't afford to be fired if we rat her out.

I'd much rather just play from the comfort of my couch.

edited to fix a quote as it was hard to read.