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#41
08-26-2007, 07:09 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
I find it very disturbing that "the" state on here is time and again rejected based on very limited empirical observation [/ QUOTE ] Actually, it's just as often rejected on moral grounds. [ QUOTE ] It's funny how Borodog claims that historically there have been AC societies in existence yet their apparent failure isn't used as empircial "evidence" against them. [/ QUOTE ] Medieval Iceland was quasi-anarchist for longer than the USA has existed--should we claim the US is a 'failure'? There are lots of reasons why states/etc come to an end, calling something a 'failure' when it lasted longer than most current governments have been in existence is ridiculous. 
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#42
08-26-2007, 09:31 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Of course, the only fields this is actually true of are coercive: theft, murder, slavery. [/ QUOTE ] Do I understand correctly that you're theorizing (or quoting anothers theory) that the free market will exceed the production/utility (define utility however you choose) of the state in any and all areas? Cody [/ QUOTE ] Competition is better at satisfying consumer preferences than monopoly.
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#43
08-26-2007, 10:57 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again oppertunity cost. If, in some field, life becomes much tougher without a state, then AC is failing in that area, at least as compared to its alturitive. [/ QUOTE ] And again (we've had this same discussion, what, fourteen times?) you can only accurately measure the opportunity cost for yourself. That is, unless you've come up with a way to read people's minds. But there would probably be a nobel prize in there somewhere, so I don't think it's happened yet. If YOU like a state, and YOU think a state offers a better outcome for YOU then YOU should be free to join a state. If you mean to measure this opportunity cost through something objective such as a straight cost accounting, well, that would be just one more instance of the myth that AC supporters only care about $$$ being the exact opposite of reality. [/ QUOTE ] What you say is true only if your actions have no effect on me. Clearly that isn't the case. [/ QUOTE ] More specific, please. Are you saying that if I choose not to join your state, you're negatively affected? Are you entitled to my participation?
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#44
08-26-2007, 11:08 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again oppertunity cost. If, in some field, life becomes much tougher without a state, then AC is failing in that area, at least as compared to its alturitive. [/ QUOTE ] And again (we've had this same discussion, what, fourteen times?) you can only accurately measure the opportunity cost for yourself. That is, unless you've come up with a way to read people's minds. But there would probably be a nobel prize in there somewhere, so I don't think it's happened yet. If YOU like a state, and YOU think a state offers a better outcome for YOU then YOU should be free to join a state. If you mean to measure this opportunity cost through something objective such as a straight cost accounting, well, that would be just one more instance of the myth that AC supporters only care about $$$ being the exact opposite of reality. [/ QUOTE ] What you say is true only if your actions have no effect on me. Clearly that isn't the case. [/ QUOTE ] More specific, please. Are you saying that if I choose not to join your state, you're negatively affected? Are you entitled to my participation? [/ QUOTE ] If you don't join he has to pay more for the schemes he wants. That's hardly fair, now is it?
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#45
08-26-2007, 11:38 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again oppertunity cost. If, in some field, life becomes much tougher without a state, then AC is failing in that area, at least as compared to its alturitive. [/ QUOTE ] And again (we've had this same discussion, what, fourteen times?) you can only accurately measure the opportunity cost for yourself. That is, unless you've come up with a way to read people's minds. But there would probably be a nobel prize in there somewhere, so I don't think it's happened yet. If YOU like a state, and YOU think a state offers a better outcome for YOU then YOU should be free to join a state. If you mean to measure this opportunity cost through something objective such as a straight cost accounting, well, that would be just one more instance of the myth that AC supporters only care about $$$ being the exact opposite of reality. [/ QUOTE ] What you say is true only if your actions have no effect on me. Clearly that isn't the case. [/ QUOTE ] More specific, please. Are you saying that if I choose not to join your state, you're negatively affected? Are you entitled to my participation? [/ QUOTE ] That's a bit of an oversimplification, but yeah that's the idea. I'm personally more worried about you harming me then you not "helping" me, but you've got the jist. You disagree, and I wasn't/don't expect you to understand, so there doesn't seem to be much point here, but if what I said isn't clear, ask away. Cody Cody
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#46
08-26-2007, 11:39 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again oppertunity cost. If, in some field, life becomes much tougher without a state, then AC is failing in that area, at least as compared to its alturitive. [/ QUOTE ] And again (we've had this same discussion, what, fourteen times?) you can only accurately measure the opportunity cost for yourself. That is, unless you've come up with a way to read people's minds. But there would probably be a nobel prize in there somewhere, so I don't think it's happened yet. If YOU like a state, and YOU think a state offers a better outcome for YOU then YOU should be free to join a state. If you mean to measure this opportunity cost through something objective such as a straight cost accounting, well, that would be just one more instance of the myth that AC supporters only care about $$$ being the exact opposite of reality. [/ QUOTE ] What you say is true only if your actions have no effect on me. Clearly that isn't the case. [/ QUOTE ] More specific, please. Are you saying that if I choose not to join your state, you're negatively affected? Are you entitled to my participation? [/ QUOTE ] If you don't join he has to pay more for the schemes he wants. That's hardly fair, now is it? [/ QUOTE ] To quote Borodog "Brilliantly argued as always". Cody
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#47
08-26-2007, 11:40 PM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Of course, the only fields this is actually true of are coercive: theft, murder, slavery. [/ QUOTE ] Do I understand correctly that you're theorizing (or quoting anothers theory) that the free market will exceed the production/utility (define utility however you choose) of the state in any and all areas? Cody [/ QUOTE ] Competition is better at satisfying consumer preferences than monopoly. [/ QUOTE ] So yes then? Cody
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#48
08-27-2007, 12:43 AM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Of course, the only fields this is actually true of are coercive: theft, murder, slavery. [/ QUOTE ] Do I understand correctly that you're theorizing (or quoting anothers theory) that the free market will exceed the production/utility (define utility however you choose) of the state in any and all areas? Cody [/ QUOTE ] Competition is better at satisfying consumer preferences than monopoly. [/ QUOTE ] So yes then? Cody [/ QUOTE ] Technically, no. The state will exceed the production of the free market in things that market participants don't actually want, like wars of aggression and deathcamps. You really need government to fix these kinds of market failures.
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#49
08-27-2007, 12:43 AM
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Re: Salerno\'s Praxeological Analysis of War Making
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again oppertunity cost. If, in some field, life becomes much tougher without a state, then AC is failing in that area, at least as compared to its alturitive. [/ QUOTE ] And again (we've had this same discussion, what, fourteen times?) you can only accurately measure the opportunity cost for yourself. That is, unless you've come up with a way to read people's minds. But there would probably be a nobel prize in there somewhere, so I don't think it's happened yet. If YOU like a state, and YOU think a state offers a better outcome for YOU then YOU should be free to join a state. If you mean to measure this opportunity cost through something objective such as a straight cost accounting, well, that would be just one more instance of the myth that AC supporters only care about $$$ being the exact opposite of reality. [/ QUOTE ] What you say is true only if your actions have no effect on me. Clearly that isn't the case. [/ QUOTE ] More specific, please. Are you saying that if I choose not to join your state, you're negatively affected? Are you entitled to my participation? [/ QUOTE ] If you don't join he has to pay more for the schemes he wants. That's hardly fair, now is it? [/ QUOTE ] To quote Borodog "Brilliantly argued as always". Cody [/ QUOTE ] Thanks.
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