Exodus Story In Doubt

[Kaj]

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Other cultures developed the concept independently. And what's so great about it anyway? In fact, I'd argue Jesus himself taught against "liking private property".

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yes but western culture gets it from the bible, not from chinese or indian derivation.
As to jesus, if you read the bible he is very clear about (re)affirming the ten commandments.

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And so other cultures got it from other sources by your admission. Which thus negates the point that we have only the Bible to thank. Besides, you don't think Greek culture had any influence whatsoever on western society?

[Kaj]

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...on biblical principles which were written into the constitution, such as gold and silver coin, just weights and balances, for currency. ....



Yeah, that type of thinking stems ONLY from the Bible.

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It's a direct descent type of thing. mosaic law -> english common law as codified by alfred the great -> our modern law.

if you want to provide an example of a legal parallel I would like to know about it, but it doesn't change the fact that ideas of the founding fathers like the one I mentioned above come straight from the bible. It was no secret.

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Of course it wasn't a secret. These ideas came "straight from the Bible" because these parts of the Bible are tautological and originally came from common sense passed down by other men. Surely this has occurred to you before.

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Exactly.

Like how come these concepts were part of Greek culture, which predates the Bible and time of Jesus, and also by the way, the Greeks were a heavy influence on western ideas through the Romans and others?

It is really ludicrous to suggest these ideas are borne from the Bible.

[PLOlover]

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Exactly.

Like how come these concepts were part of Greek culture, which predates the Bible and time of Jesus, and also by the way, the Greeks were a heavy influence on western ideas through the Romans and others?

It is really ludicrous to suggest these ideas are borne from the Bible.


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well greek culture didn't predate the bible number 1, and
2) please cite a an alternate derivation of "just weights and balances" and thou shalt not steal.
3) to the best of my knowledge ancient greek ethics absolutely differed from private property 10 commandments and can be best summed up by Thucydides observation of the greeks "it is just and fair that the strong should dominate the weak"

[Kaj]

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Exactly.

Like how come these concepts were part of Greek culture, which predates the Bible and time of Jesus, and also by the way, the Greeks were a heavy influence on western ideas through the Romans and others?

It is really ludicrous to suggest these ideas are borne from the Bible.


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well greek culture didn't predate the bible number 1, and
2) please cite a an alternate derivation of "just weights and balances" and thou shalt not steal.
3) to the best of my knowledge ancient greek ethics absolutely differed from private property 10 commandments and can be best summed up by Thucydides observation of the greeks "it is just and fair that the strong should dominate the weak"

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One quote from one Greek does not summarize the entire legal and political system of an advanced culture.

Also, do you think that ancient Jews "discovered" that thou shalt not steal from God's commandments, and that without this supposed proclamation from God himself, western society wouldn't be able to have such a concept?

Because I think most aboriginal cultures have a similar code of conduct against stealing, murdering, etc. wholly independent from the 10 Commandments. So it's possible, no?

Can you at least admit that?

[lisue49]

What would it take to convince you the exdous occured? Please be specific. thank you


respectfully submitted.

[NotReady]

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Name me one thing that man has learned about God, through science and the observation of nature?


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The Big Bang has caused a lot of scientists to admit the need for a Creator.

[NotReady]

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Haven't you admitted before there is no evidence that will shake your faith?


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Cite please.

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The lack of evidence re: the Exodus should set a fair-minded person on the path that the Bible is not an entirely true account of anything.


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The incredible quantity of evidence re: so many facts in the Bible should set a fair-minded person on the path that the Bible is an entirely true account of many things.

[PLOlover]

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One quote from one Greek does not summarize the entire legal and political system of an advanced culture.

Also, do you think that ancient Jews "discovered" that thou shalt not steal from God's commandments, and that without this supposed proclamation from God himself, western society wouldn't be able to have such a concept?

Because I think most aboriginal cultures have a similar code of conduct against stealing, murdering, etc. wholly independent from the 10 Commandments. So it's possible, no?

Can you at least admit that?

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what I'm saying is that the concept of private property we have in the west comes from thou shalt not steal, and the just weights and balances thing comes from leviticus.

I mean you can read the federalist and anti-federalist papers and they come right out and discuss things like where ideas in the constitution come from, regarding you know no state shall make anything but gold/silver coin blah blah.

I mean other cultures may have other codes of conduct or similiar codes of conduct I don't know. i mean I know north korea doesn't have private property.
I mean as far as the greeks and stuff, I'm not sure you can find anything that says that a total peasant can own anything or more to the point a total peasant can't refuse a claim by someone of higher status who is then able to just take his stuff. I mean in the bible even the king couldn't just take stuff without compensation.

[tpir]

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Cite please.

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Just read through the savant thread so I guess I am wrong on this one.


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The incredible quantity of evidence re: so many facts in the Bible should set a fair-minded person on the path that the Bible is an entirely true account of many things.

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Yes, the Bible has some true statements in it. And? This does not make it more likely that the extraordinary claims in there are also true.

[PLOlover]

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One quote from one Greek does not summarize the entire legal and political system of an advanced culture.

Also, do you think that ancient Jews "discovered" that thou shalt not steal from God's commandments, and that without this supposed proclamation from God himself, western society wouldn't be able to have such a concept?

Because I think most aboriginal cultures have a similar code of conduct against stealing, murdering, etc. wholly independent from the 10 Commandments. So it's possible, no?

Can you at least admit that?



what I'm saying is that the concept of private property we have in the west comes from thou shalt not steal, and the just weights and balances thing comes from leviticus.

I mean you can read the federalist and anti-federalist papers and they come right out and discuss things like where ideas in the constitution come from, regarding you know no state shall make anything but gold/silver coin blah blah.

I mean other cultures may have other codes of conduct or similiar codes of conduct I don't know. i mean I know north korea doesn't have private property.
I mean as far as the greeks and stuff, I'm not sure you can find anything that says that a total peasant can own anything or more to the point a total peasant can't refuse a claim by someone of higher status who is then able to just take his stuff. I mean in the bible even the king couldn't just take stuff without compensation.

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I mean in japan until the 1900s a high class person, a samuri or something, could kill a commoner for any reason, without any consequences. why do you think the japanese are so polite lol.