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#41
08-07-2007, 03:48 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No it's common sense. Taxes, in and of themselves, never help anyone. Taxes is just the simple act of the government stealing money from me. [/ QUOTE ] You've gone off the deep-end here. This is totally wrong. Taxes help and hurt people, but it's impossible for money to come into and leave a governemnt (without all of it being embezzeled) and no one to be helped. [/ QUOTE ] I think what he's saying is that it isn't a net benefit vs. other forms of wealth transfer. Nothing is created through taxation that couldn't be done via other means. Sure, robbery helps the robber. But there are other ways for him to make money that would probably be more beneficial to him and others in the long run. Cliff's notes: taxation is an expression of poor time preferences. 
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#42
08-07-2007, 04:11 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
"WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!!!"
OK! You've got my attention! "Then by your own logic, nobody is hurt by taxation, either!!!" No. "Because if people with near nothing aren't helped by government giving them a monthly stipend, then people with a decent life can't really be hurt much by a monthly tax. Not like they will be destitute or anything." No, my point was the homelessman is probably going to waste that $50... someone who's middle class obviously doesn't throw away all their money, because they're not homeless.
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#43
08-07-2007, 04:13 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
"
Also, what's funny about this "logic" is that he seems to have problems with arbitrarily setting cutoff points (see his views on defining poverty), yet, if $50 doesnt help you, then certainly giving a homeless man $100,000 wouldnt help him either, unless you want to set some ARBITRARY point at which the amount given begins to help." Giving a homelessman $100,000 probably wouldn't help him either. It would give him a few months, maybe a year, of wasting all the money... and then he'd be homeless again. If you want to help him, get him a job and teach him the value of earning money. " Anyway, when you guys say "taxes" help I think what you mean is "spending" helps... which is true, spending helps a few well connected people at the expense of the rest of us, I certainly do not dispute this.
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#44
08-07-2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No it's common sense. Taxes, in and of themselves, never help anyone. Taxes is just the simple act of the government stealing money from me. [/ QUOTE ] You've gone off the deep-end here. This is totally wrong. Taxes help and hurt people, but it's impossible for money to come into and leave a governemnt (without all of it being embezzeled) and no one to be helped. [/ QUOTE ] I think what he's saying is that it isn't a net benefit vs. other forms of wealth transfer. Nothing is created through taxation that couldn't be done via other means. Sure, robbery helps the robber. But there are other ways for him to make money that would probably be more beneficial to him and others in the long run. [/ QUOTE ] This isnt a discussion about whether or not taxation is the best means by which to help reduce poverty. Just a question of whether it does.
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#45
08-07-2007, 04:23 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
[ QUOTE ]
No, my point was the homelessman is probably going to waste that $50 [/ QUOTE ] anyway to back this up? I mean, I doubt most bums go around burning $20s for the fun of it
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#46
08-07-2007, 04:29 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
"anyway to back this up?"
Do you think a program of cautiously saving for the future led to his luxurious cardboard box apartment? " This isnt a discussion about whether or not taxation is the best means by which to help reduce poverty. Just a question of whether it does. " You are confusing the issue significantly by saying taxes when you mean spending.
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#47
08-07-2007, 04:36 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
[ QUOTE ]
"anyway to back this up?" Do you think a program of cautiously saving for the future led to his luxurious cardboard box apartment? [/ QUOTE ] so, the fact that someone MIGHT have made poor decisions in the past, means that he is going to 'waste' money? Like, if this person buys food, is that a 'waste'? [ QUOTE ] You are confusing the issue significantly by saying taxes when you mean spending. [/ QUOTE ] Do you really need to be told that no one in this thread believes that taxation, without the inevitable spending, would reduce poverty? Really?
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#48
08-07-2007, 04:42 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
ohh, just to note,
[ QUOTE ] The problem here is you have inserted this arbitrary factor 'poverty'. [/ QUOTE ] No, its in your OP [ QUOTE ] It is a myth that the welfare state benefits the poor [/ QUOTE ]
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#49
08-07-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
"
Do you really need to be told that no one in this thread believes that taxation, without the inevitable spending, would reduce poverty? Really? " I don't need to be told anything, you are the one making the foolish claim that taxation, on it's own, helps things.
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#50
08-07-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: Oh Canada! Let\'s get rid of the income tax.
"No, its in your OP"
Well then why don't you try addressing the point, in my OP, instead of talking about some hypothetical rich western nation where half the population makes a dollar a day?
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