Molested at $2/4

[Kermit]

"one thing that alot of people dont understand is in general it's OK to put money in behind in poker. i do it all the time! the key is to put it in behind *correctly*. "

bobbo,

i got the first part down. when is the lesson on actually hitting your draw?

fgators,

i call the turn as well, but i may have been corrupted.

kermit

[catcher193]

[ QUOTE ]
to the people who think bet / folding the turn is even an option...

run some numbers. give opponent credit for a flush X% of the time. evaluate the pot odds. then try to figure if even a small Y% villain can have another hand. also consider most trips are a split. the key point is when behind hero has equity.
another thing. try to create a delicate hand range on the flop, even a predictable/straightforward opponent. then consider how hero's hand looks on the turn. ie. this means the move is to bet.

so the best line is really simple here. you bet, then you call an all in. player description and stacks etc. don't swing this to ANYTHING ELSE.

also, preflop is ok, I prefer 3betting, but I do prefer calling over folding. also, i like hero's bet sizing, i just dont like his fold.

one thing that alot of people dont understand is in general it's OK to put money in behind in poker. i do it all the time! the key is to put it in behind *correctly*.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly, but I summed them up a bit:

[ QUOTE ]
id call cus you have 3 of a kind

[/ QUOTE ]

[FGators]

I mean against a somewhat novice player (this guy was 1 tabling and I had never seen him around)+ the fact that he was calling OOP,etc. I think I'm up against a 6 (A6,K6s) a decent portion of the time here as well.

I don't see why a guy would just shove in a Q here.

[jfish]

b/c is pretty bad.

[d2themfi]

Yeah I agree bet call is pretty bad, and tbh I was shocked so many people saying bet call here. I thought this was a clear spot to bet/fold

[spino1i]

While you do have to worry about falling victim to a runner-runner flush on the river, I still hate the turn bet. Mainly because I dont like your spot when he raises you as he did. I like check/call here.

[mythrilfox]

[ QUOTE ]
to the people who think bet / folding the turn is even an option...

run some numbers. give opponent credit for a flush X% of the time. evaluate the pot odds. then try to figure if even a small Y% villain can have another hand. also consider most trips are a split. the key point is when behind hero has equity.
another thing. try to create a delicate hand range on the flop, even a predictable/straightforward opponent. then consider how hero's hand looks on the turn. ie. this means the move is to bet.

so the best line is really simple here. you bet, then you call an all in. player description and stacks etc. don't swing this to ANYTHING ELSE.

also, preflop is ok, I prefer 3betting, but I do prefer calling over folding. also, i like hero's bet sizing, i just dont like his fold.

one thing that alot of people dont understand is in general it's OK to put money in behind in poker. i do it all the time! the key is to put it in behind *correctly*.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't really understand what you mean by a lot of this. our hands looks very strong on the turn to me... no strong queens or overpairs are in our range, looks like a six or flush once we bet the turn (possibly qt). even retard villains will understand this intuitively, given the board is pretty scary and it was a 4way pot preflop.

also i don't understand why he would push a 6 on the turn to get us off a split... because HE would have to be splitting at best giving us any logical range.

the only realistic semibluffing hand he could have here is probably A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Qx, which reraises preflop some of the time, and i think if he's passive enough to call AQ preflop here i doubt he's gonna be semibluffing the turn, given most ppl will think their hand has enough showdown+suckout value to just flatcall. something like K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]/J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Qx seems like wishful thinking.

i just don't see what else he could have that makes a turn call profitable.

i think bruin gave some good points on checking the turn.

-against hands like a queen without a spade we're not even sure we can get ONE street of value, much less two. but if we check the turn and the river blanks off he's almost certainly calling a reasonable valuebet with any queen

-against queen+spade, we get maybe one street of value on the turn and protect our hand.

-against 65/67, we split now, so no real value in betting except as a bluff.

-against A6(K6?), again no value in betting except as a bluff. he's probably not folding any 6, though.

-against a flush betting is very bad obviously.

-qt will call a turn bet, and will maybe call a river bet... if he's smart he'd dump it on the river though.

so i don't really see how we can profitably bet the turn and then bet the river... his range for calling two streets of bets here seems to be weighted strongly towards splits or winners. since we can't get 2 streets of value the only real reason to bet the turn is for protection or to make future decisions easier... like if we think checking might give him reason to think he can bluff us off the pot. op said he was a passive calling station so far though, so it seems more likely he'd check a queen down rather than turn a hand with apparent showdown value into a bluff.

i'd probably call him once on the turn and then fold the river. unless he bets pot, i'd probably just dump it on the turn in that case.

[Speedlimits]

c/c please.

[therockofgibraltar]

[ QUOTE ]
c/c please.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, I mean good discussions on this thread but seems so obvious c/c

[jackflashdrive]

My first instinct was that you clearly want to b/f because (1) he will probably raise all hands that beat you and you can get away (and he probably won't raise any worse hands) (2) you can get 3 streets of value from hands you beat while only giving 2 streets of value to hands that are ahead (3) you protect yourself from a 4-flush on river.

However, I've reconsidered and I think c/c turn is best because (1) I don't think he will bet PSB on river when you are ahead (i.e. you fold) and (2) I don't think you can get 3 streets of value from a Q even if he is passive and (3) you might c/f to a PSB on river if 4-flush shows up, saving you the money you would have put in on turn charging him to draw.