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#41
07-28-2007, 02:44 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog. [/ QUOTE ] a) Human fights aren't to the death b) Human fighters choose to participate in fights, whereas dogs are pretty much forced to fight if they are owned by a particular person c) The dogs who are bred for fighting are just treated like [censored] in general [/ QUOTE ] they fight to the death? didnt realize that, but thats why I said I dont see much of a difference if there is enough regulation in both, no death, judging cuts, etc. Dogs really dont have the brainpower to choose anything imo, they are using nothing but instinct when you think they are "choosing" something, and a natural instinct for some dogs is to fight. Its not like a human that smells cookies, and decided not to have one becuase it will make him fat. FWIW I really dont have strong feelings on it, and think its be damn hard and not worth it to regulate it, and easier to just do away. 
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#42
07-28-2007, 02:45 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog. [/ QUOTE ] a) Human fights aren't to the death b) Human fighters choose to participate in fights, whereas dogs are pretty much forced to fight if they are owned by a particular person c) The dogs who are bred for fighting are just treated like [censored] in general [/ QUOTE ] Also, humans fight at a much more skillful level and are rarely if ever tortured to death for losing.
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#43
07-28-2007, 02:45 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh...the boxers having a choice might be a small difference.
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#44
07-28-2007, 02:48 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh...the boxers having a choice might be a small difference. [/ QUOTE ] dogs do not have the ability to make choices.
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#45
07-28-2007, 02:49 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] For those that support dog fighting, where do you personally draw the line, if you have one at all? [/ QUOTE ] Black people are property and people can do with their property what they wish. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] thumbs down
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#46
07-28-2007, 03:07 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh...the boxers having a choice might be a small difference. [/ QUOTE ] dogs do not have the ability to make choices. [/ QUOTE ] thats the point, ydf
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#47
07-28-2007, 04:23 AM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh...the boxers having a choice might be a small difference. [/ QUOTE ] dogs do not have the ability to make choices. [/ QUOTE ] Yes they do. Their thought processes as complicated as ours, but they are definitely capable of having preferences and making choices. If you put two bowls of dog food in front of them, they'll choose to eat out which one they like better. If they see two people sitting on a couch, they will choose to sit on the lap of the human they like better. And anyone who has owned a dog can tell you that dogs are capable of having emotions and experiencing the equivalent of what we call happiness. And I bet the dogs that are forced to fight do not lead happy existences.
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#48
07-28-2007, 01:47 PM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
The problem here is that no one's capable of seeing shades of gray. Everything has to be black or white. Here's the logic chain most people have: dogs = nice, dog-fighting = bad, Michael Vick = dog-fighter, Michael Vick = evil incarnate, let's end Michael Vick's career and send him to jail for a long period of time.
In reality, it's perfectly possible to think that dog-fighting is wrong and should not be done, but the Federal government has no right to regulate it, or that they have the right to stop it and enforce some sort of penalties, but that it should not be a felony which carries a long period of jail time. This is the same thing that happens with child pornography. It's an activity which everyone agrees is wrong and no one (outside of pedophiles) sympathizes with so the penalties continually grow stiffer and stiffer until they're completely out of proportion to the offense. Do I think dog-fighting is a bad thing? Yes. Do I think it likely reflects some negative personality traits in those who engage in it. Absolutely. Do I think it should be a felony prosecuted by the federal government? NO! I think this should be a state issue dominated by community standards where it's either granted approval or prohibited with the threats of fines and probation if committed depending on how the people feel in that particular area. The fact that people are giving this so much more attention and outrage than they did for Ray Lewis's murder trial or Leonard Lewis's second DUI after killing someone on his first one definitely represents a complete lack of perspective in our society.
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#49
07-28-2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] For those that support dog fighting, where do you personally draw the line, if you have one at all? [/ QUOTE ] Black people are property and people can do with their property what they wish. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Can we eat black people too?
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#50
07-28-2007, 03:27 PM
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Re: Leave Michael Vick Alone...
[ QUOTE ]
The problem here is that no one's capable of seeing shades of gray. Everything has to be black or white. Here's the logic chain most people have: dogs = nice, dog-fighting = bad, Michael Vick = dog-fighter, Michael Vick = evil incarnate, let's end Michael Vick's career and send him to jail for a long period of time. In reality, it's perfectly possible to think that dog-fighting is wrong and should not be done, but the Federal government has no right to regulate it, or that they have the right to stop it and enforce some sort of penalties, but that it should not be a felony which carries a long period of jail time. This is the same thing that happens with child pornography. It's an activity which everyone agrees is wrong and no one (outside of pedophiles) sympathizes with so the penalties continually grow stiffer and stiffer until they're completely out of proportion to the offense. Do I think dog-fighting is a bad thing? Yes. Do I think it likely reflects some negative personality traits in those who engage in it. Absolutely. Do I think it should be a felony prosecuted by the federal government? NO! I think this should be a state issue dominated by community standards where it's either granted approval or prohibited with the threats of fines and probation if committed depending on how the people feel in that particular area. The fact that people are giving this so much more attention and outrage than they did for Ray Lewis's murder trial or Leonard Lewis's second DUI after killing someone on his first one definitely represents a complete lack of perspective in our society. [/ QUOTE ] Nice post.
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