My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000

[Akimka]

I think very major thing is missed here: what is the difference between computer that execute simple algorithm (and I am pretty sure that all this strategy can be written on single page of paper) and human that follow such strategy?
Anyway number is bot instances is limited by number of tables allowed and it's impossible to multiply number of bout in infinite so this advantage of computerized bots is not applicable. But with human bots we have major advantage - human play is allowed as opposed to computer play so if these people can prove that thay are nor computers poker site will allow them to play.

So what's conclusion about this? There is no point to discuss is these playes made from bone and flesh or from silicon because there is no difference. If Raul would not so generous with friends and hired army of unskilled labourers instead for $4/hour that would be a greater problem because all prima tables would be infested with bots very soo. Think about it.

So I am 100% certain that we need to demand all poker sites to raise minimum buyin to 50 and even better to 100BB instead of trying to see difference between bots.
I think that's should be a real goal for us.

[GrindingIt]

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It doesn't take much to show that a bot exists. Sit in/Sit Out bugs etc are things that no human could or would possibly match and are extremely damning.

Your like that other clown who had bots and then posted to defend himself. How did you find this thread? Who are these friends? Are we suppose to believe you really have a short stacking army?

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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. He found this thread because I´ve told him the existence Thremp.

Really he gave much more info than I would do, but anyway, I don´t understand people who believes firmly in winning bots, and still play poker. Do you like to be robbed? Is that some kind of masochism?

Cheers, Sandokan.

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You're a winning experienced player and making these comments? Be serious.

Why pretend bots don't exist at all?

[VanVeen]

er, i don't think there are many people out there who could implement a "system" while multitabling who wouldn't just memorize it and start keeping the profits for themselves. that's essentially why winning shortstackers (of which there are not many on the 20bb sites) don't freely educate anyone and everyone.

i'm puzzled by something. why don't sites create tables with different buyin levels? 30bb? 50bb? 100bb? more? they're different games and they all have their "charm". if someone wants to gamble with 30bb let them, but let them do it with other people who want to do the same. very simple solution!

[dardo]

I can say SirDonald is one of the best & well known players in Spain, and he lives in Valencia, so it all fits.

Anyway I would still be interested in how these shortstackers could sit in/sit out automatically without any delay when the number of players changed from 3 to 4 playing 8 tables at once.

[teddyFBI]

Yes, to all you spanish posters here who claim to be involved in this "ring", you still haven't answered the most important issues brought up in this thread. Of course you're fully within your rights to use a short-stacking "system" -- it's annoying for real players and it ruins the games, but you're not breaking any rule if it really is just actual people sitting around employing the system.

But you have, at every turn, sidestepped the very damning evidence that roblin posted, suggesting that many of the processes are AUTOMATED. That would clearly be prohibited, a,d would very much justify the wrath that members of this forum are casting upon you. You need to address the sit-in, sit-out evidence, which seems to clearly indicate that it's an AUTOMATED / computer-generated sequence. You might think that automating just THAT part of the game is OK, since it's not actual gameplay, but you won't find a single poster here who would agree with that. ANY automation classifies you as a bot. If your system is so simple and successful, you shouldn't have to automated any process. SO what do you have to say about this issue?

[MDMA]

I played one of these bots named the other day, and well, honestly, it's just too much that don't match for this to be a non-bot.

Take this for example, they always do the same raises etc, following their system or whatever, but then, on one occurance, a donk in early position raised to 8bb, and the field folded. The very next hand, the bot raises 8bb (from a late position though), which it has NEVER ever done before (this having 20bb behind).

Honestly, how can this be explained other than by a glitch, which human player who follows a system would in their right mind all of a sudden raise to 8bb the very next hand?

[dardo]

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Honestly, how can this be explained other than by a glitch, which human player who follows a system would in their right mind all of a sudden raise to 8bb the very next hand?

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If anything this helps believing it's NOT a bot other than anything. Human beings make errors and changes ( a lot of the times stupid irrational changes.)

What you should try to find in robots is stupid repetitions or too much speed doing dozens of actions.

[Zibow]

Hi again! I´m Aprilialions on Prima network.

In a well reputed poker book it is explained that the human brain is expert on pattern recognition. Also, that it tends to find patterns even where there are none, to explain things it does not fully understand.

This will answer two of your questions:



FIRST is the "auto sit-in/sit-out while on 8 tables".

The flow of our shortstacking is: Look at the hand and instantly fold or go all in, no more decisions. If called, wait for the hand to unfold (many seconds) while you’re doing something else (surf the net? chat with girlfriend?). Lastly check if u must reload (meaning u lost) or uncheck autoblind (since u won and will leave at next big blind).


We are just sitting and waiting for most of the time, even on 8 tables. We normally have no more than 4, since we are done with tables (doubled up) much faster than we get new seats. Plus we are many and never sit at the same tables.


It´s not hard to meanwhile sit in or out of a convenient/inconvenient table fast.


Fast, because that is all it is. Fast as a human reaction.



SECOND is the 8bb raise issue:


Would you try to steal blinds going all in with a 20bb stack? Not wise.

Would you fold your good and premium hands if your stack was 20bb? No comment.

How would you mix your play in order to keep stealing and play your best hands?


Call and find out.


If u think 8bb raises after doubling up are a bug in a bot, think twice.



There is no bot, only humans playing a successful system and other humans looking for bot patterns to explain what they cannot understand.


PD: As mentioned in my previous post, Unibet has proof that we are humans and we play in this manner. We have met in person. Some of us are interested in this thread because we enjoy debate while the rest are not and spend their time shortstacking.

[VayaConDios]

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FIRST is the "auto sit-in/sit-out while on 8 tables".

The flow of our shortstacking is: Look at the hand and instantly fold or go all in, no more decisions. If called, wait for the hand to unfold (many seconds) while you’re doing something else (surf the net? chat with girlfriend?). Lastly check if u must reload (meaning u lost) or uncheck autoblind (since u won and will leave at next big blind).


We are just sitting and waiting for most of the time, even on 8 tables. We normally have no more than 4, since we are done with tables (doubled up) much faster than we get new seats. Plus we are many and never sit at the same tables.


It´s not hard to meanwhile sit in or out of a convenient/inconvenient table fast.


Fast, because that is all it is. Fast as a human reaction.

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This does not even approach explaining how you're able to instantly sit in while eight tabling.

FTP set a terrible precedent by allowing botters to simply step forward and say, "we're not botting, we're just a bunch of friends who are following a system."

What Prima should do is close your accounts, send you a check, and tell you that your action is no longer welcome.

[Bill Haywood]

If it is of help, I have 661 LIMIT hands on Piruloo at Prima (129 5/10; 532 3/6). I have never played canichewua, caird, vbisk, or aprilialions. I have 11 5/10 hands on deilor.

Piruloo's stats

vpip 19.76
pfr 15.72
fold blinds to steal, 81, 61
steal blind attempts 24
wsd 43
total aggression factor 2.16
BB/100 +8.23

If there's a specific stat you want, pm me, but I'm not figuring out how to export the whole shebang.