ok so im a degenerate and didnt take a few days break... (200nl hand)

[.KeviN.]

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plus you want pot control. The later streets will be much easier to play by checking here and seeing what cards peel off/the action.

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i don't think pot control is a reason for checking here, because our hand isn't good anyways and we're not likely to put anymore more $$$ in the pot if we're called.

also, checking can put us in just as tough a spot as betting...for example, if we check and the 2nd player to act bets the turn, we're in just as tough a spot with no clue at all where we stand.

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You're right, our hand isn't too good here, and I doubt we're folding any better hands. So that's another reason I check the flop. I just mentioned pot control bc that's a bonus from checking, and I think the flop is the best spot to do it.

And if either player bets out a decent amount on the turn (no reads) I have no problem folding. I don't really need to know where I stand bc there's just so many ways we're beat if someones's betting into this board vs 2 players. Sure he could have the Ad but thats just a small part of his range. Also, if we check and see it go bet,call its even easier to fold.

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you make excellent arguments for a flop check. and i totally agree that if we are checking this flop, we should fold to any aggression from our opponents on the turn, so checking basically = giving up on pot, which is fine. i guess it's just preference as to whether or not to take a shot at this flop.

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Thanks. And I dont really hate a flop bet but it's almost never getting a fold here and changes the hand as I said before. Checking doesn't really give up on the hand, it's just more of a defensive move to wait n get more information before we get our bet in because that's all the value we get out of hand, one bet, and it's either on the flop or turn.


ps happy bday

[Jay Riall]

Btw, I'm not advocating calling all turn bets. Like if SB led strong I'd fold, SB and BB called I'd fold etc etc.

[Jay Riall]

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plus you want pot control. The later streets will be much easier to play by checking here and seeing what cards peel off/the action.

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i don't think pot control is a reason for checking here, because our hand isn't good anyways and we're not likely to put anymore more $$$ in the pot if we're called.

also, checking can put us in just as tough a spot as betting...for example, if we check and the 2nd player to act bets the turn, we're in just as tough a spot with no clue at all where we stand.

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You're right, our hand isn't too good here, and I doubt we're folding any better hands. So that's another reason I check the flop. I just mentioned pot control bc that's a bonus from checking, and I think the flop is the best spot to do it.

And if either player bets out a decent amount on the turn (no reads) I have no problem folding. I don't really need to know where I stand bc there's just so many ways we're beat if someones's betting into this board vs 2 players. Sure he could have the Ad but thats just a small part of his range. Also, if we check and see it go bet,call its even easier to fold.

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you make excellent arguments for a flop check. and i totally agree that if we are checking this flop, we should fold to any aggression from our opponents on the turn, so checking basically = giving up on pot, which is fine. i guess it's just preference as to whether or not to take a shot at this flop.

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Thanks. And I dont really hate a flop bet but it's almost never getting a fold here and changes the hand as I said before. Checking doesn't really give up on the hand, it's just more of a defensive move to wait n get more information before we get our bet in because that's all the value we get out of hand, one bet, and it's either on the flop or turn.


ps happy bday

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lol I kinda like that idea - 'checking for information.' Checking flops does have a nice way of keeping people honest. They are much more likely to make a move if you bet the flop than if you check and take it to the turn.

[Fat Nicky]

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Why not check and call some turn bets if they come? You have much better equity on the turn vs all the hands you were slightly ahead of on the flop.

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well, yea, i guess if a total blank falls on the turn, i guess we're obligated to call a bet there if we checked the flop.

[mertzo]

I dont like the idea of calling a turnbet at all, even if we checked the flop. Noone is making a moove empty here. And even if Ad bets here alot of the times, so does i million hands that beats us. And if we call and he actually does have Ad, and he misses the river, he might still bluff us off the best hand since we are now basicly repping nutflush (which Ad isnt afraid of) or a marginal hand.

[mce86]

BB is calling your bet with the SB calling as well. Really shrinks your turn trips.
Id check behind on the turn, and call non diamond river. Ideally, the diamond on river is a queen! SHIP IT!