LC: We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?

[sippin_criss]

The times I moved to cash from SNG's I felt the same way The Venetian did - while I was winning. Winning at cash I found a lot more satisfying but I wasn't very good at it and it would get really frustrating when things didn't go well and I would lose the sense of security and reliability I felt with SNG's.

[cakewalk]

it's all rigged

[AMT]

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it's all rigged

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wow thank you for your insight on this already misguided topic. what would we do without you ben????

[cakewalk]

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it's all rigged

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wow thank you for your insight on this already misguided topic. what would we do without you ben????

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noone else had pointed out this blatant fact of poker

[kleath]

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it's all rigged

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wow thank you for your insight on this already misguided topic. what would we do without you ben????

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noone else had pointed out this blatant fact of poker

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Just remember that every rooose has its thorn, just like every niiight, has its daaaaaawn, like every cowboy sings his sad sad soooong, every rose has its thoooorn

[johnnybeef]

Nah, you're not an idiot at all. While they have definitely gotten tougher (as has all of online poker) they are still very beatable. I don't think that there is anyone who has posted here who has been around as long as I have (cept maybe microbet) but there is a natural transgression for people to get bored with sngs and move on to other things (likewise, you will periodically see people who play cash branch out to sngs.) When I first started posting, Imsolucky, Strassa, ZeeJustin, and Daliman where several names who were beating the biggest sngs. Now all of these people are playing elsewhere.

[The Venetian]

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I jumped from SNG's to cash this past week and, frankly, I don't think I'll ever come back. I'd been asking myself this exact question for months before actually doing so.

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May I ask how many tables you play at once now? Just curious.

I've been trying 50NL at Stars and having better results than the 16s lately, for whatever reason. I'm not sure why cash would be softer than SNGs; if there are fewer fish than pre-Frist I would think all games would be tougher now.

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Just 8, at most. It's so relaxing in comparison. I played some FPP sats today, then played $16's to convert the $T, and basically was so ready to kill myself afterwards.

Here's what it comes down to: in cash, you get position on a bad player and he has no chance. None. You abuse him and abuse him. Unless he walks away, his stack belongs to you. In a SNG, he can win a crapshoot and you can't fight back.

Look, I've won far more than my share from SNG's and I'm definitely not the best. Certainly not 26-tabling.

I have no doubt that I can beat 50/100 NL for a better clip than anything I could do in SNG's. There are just so many bad 46/4 or 88/26 type players that are lining up to hand you cash.

I'm certainly never mocking another SNG player for staying with it. It treated me very well. If you're good, you will win. But, in my case, I'm playing for a living and cash appears far better for that. Plus, it works out better for my lifestyle (married with kids, mortgage, etc.).

When it comes down to it, I'd rather play SNG's against the morons that were there two years ago, but they're not as numerous as they used to be.

[Scotty_12]

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Also, I think the SNG world goes through a lot more transitions than the cash world. If it were still the "old" days we probably wouldn't be having this discussion and we would be laughing at ring players who thought SNGs weren't real poker while we had our 20%+ ROIs.

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Every time I see someone post about the 'old days' I really wish I had got into poker back then.

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As well, these days the games are certainly tougher with more variance, but unless you are playing the highest stakes you can still crush the game by good table selection and staying on top of your game. A lot of the regulars experience extreme variance at SNGs because they just aren't that good. I've had some long discussions with a lot of 2p2ers and it's apparent that a lot of people aren't really as good as they think at SNGs. As simplistic as it is, it's very easy to get rusty and get off your game.

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Maybe I am just running insanely hot lately, but I agree with this post 110%. If you gameselect as well as spend some time looking at your pokertracker to analyze the tendencies of the opponents you face most frequently, and develop a strategy to exploit them, then the results are huge.

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Regardless, I think every player should know how to beat cash games so when you go play live or if SNGs were ever to get even harder then you could do so. It's obviously a lot more fun to be a winner than a loser at any game. I try and take pride at being good at both or trying to be, just as people take pride in being good at multiple games besides NLHE.

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Being a winner at live poker is alot of fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Cash in your pocket at the end of a session is more rewarding than a higher number on a 2007FP

[Irieguy]

Here's one thing about SNGs:

If you ever want to be an expert level MTT player, you are well served by mastering SNG play.

Playing a short stack perfectly, blind stealing, and understanding ICM on and near the bubble are absolutely essential concepts in MTT play and they are best learned playing SNGs.

While I no longer play SNGs, I certainly put in my time and I use SNG concepts every day I play... no matter what game it is. If you are an expert SNG player you will never make a bet size error in either a ring game or MTT.

Fiery Justice, TravestyFund, The Usher, ImSoLuckyO, Strassa, and ZJustin were all successful SNG players before they started winning WPT events and final tabling WSOP events. In a couple of years you will add Raptor, Good2cu, Deuce2high, and Bonafone to that list.

So it's not just about $$/hr. You have to consider the future EV you gain in tournament play and ring game play either as, or against a short stack player that you will gain by knowing how to size your bets perfectly.

Now, many expert ring game or MTT players who never played SNGs will say that bet sizing and ICM understanding are simple things to master without playing 5,000 SNGs. But I can tell you that this year at the WSOP I've seen many expert on-line MTT players make atrocious errors against short stack players. The most common one being making a raise that pot-commits you to call a short stack push when you rate to be so far behind their range that the whole play becomes a giant spew. It happens every day, at every table by players whom I know are winning loads of monies on line in ring games and MTTs. If they knew SNG theory a little better, they could avoid a lot of common errors and ultimately win more money.

So, whatever, play SNGs or don't play SNGs... but if you are learning to master them you are definitely NOT wasting your time.

Irieguy

[suzzer99]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I'm running 24% over my last 425 SNGs, since pretty much the day I decided to get a job. Poker is easy. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]