Soft 4-8 in Vegas

[uclaben]

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By your theory Bellagio and Wynn would be the places to go. The two toughest 4/8 games I've ever been in were at the Wynn and Bellagio.

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I suggest you work on your game then, I've played 4/8 in both rooms and I can assure you they are FAR from tough.

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He didn't say they were tough. He said they were the toughest he's ever played in. You're clearly taking a shot at this guy.

[uclaben]

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Just curious - how big is your bankroll (for the trip, not necessarily your entire roll)? Seems to me that a lot of online players overestimate how low they need to play live.

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Well, I was planning to take 1600 or so to play with. But you are right, that is not my entire bankroll.

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I'm sure most here will disagree with me, but I don't see why you need to limit yourself to 4/8. Unless you play professionally, do you really need 200 BB for a week-long trip to Vegas?

Put another way: is that $1600 enough of your bankroll that it's indispensable to you? Because if not, you can at least take some shots at higher levels, then drop down if you lose your first few sessions and want to preserve your bankroll to avoid busting during the trip. JMO...

[*TT*]

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By your theory Bellagio and Wynn would be the places to go. The two toughest 4/8 games I've ever been in were at the Wynn and Bellagio.

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I suggest you work on your game then, I've played 4/8 in both rooms and I can assure you they are FAR from tough.

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He didn't say they were tough. He said they were the toughest he's ever played in. You're clearly taking a shot at this guy.

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A quote from Dr. Al's new book - "To be a good card player you have to start blaming bad luck and start accepting responsibility for your results". when 3/4 of the people on this site say they are running bad in reality they had a bit of bad luck while playing sub optimally. If you feel almost any live game in Vegas at the 4/8 limit level is tough, then the first stop is to look internally, see whats wrong with your own game, and adjust accordingly. Just 2 months ago I played 4/8 and lost 2 racks, but I always knew the game was super soft, my loss was a product of varience, it was not from being in a tough game. Thats the key - always know yourself, be honest about the quality of your playing ability. That is what I preach here, the knowlege to look within to understand who you are without using ego as a crutch, and to be honest about your playing ability.

Note - I did not read his book, but I did like that quote!

PS: It was clearly not a shot. Trust me, if I wanted to take a shot at him it would have been a mean post, I know how to throw down when i need to... my response was nothing more than tough love, and the hope that it helps him find the knowlege necessary to crush those 4/8 games without worry that they are ever tough.

[MicroBob]

TT - He didn't say the games were tough.
He said they were tougher than other 4/8 games he had played in.

Are you really not seeing the difference?

I thought every 3/6, 4/8, 8/16 and 15/30 game I played in LV (and Tunica) were pretty easy and extremely beatable.
But of all the 3/6 and 4/8 games I played there were a couple that were a bit less-easy (re: 'tougher') than others.


I completely agree with your assessment on players that are 'running bad' and inappropriately blaming 'tough games' for your losses, etc.
But it's just not relevant to this discussion imo.

[*TT*]

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TT - He didn't say the games were tough.
He said they were tougher than other 4/8 games he had played in.

Are you really not seeing the difference?

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Bob - the 4/8 games in Vegas are hands down the easiest ones I have ever seen in my travels across the country, and thats no exaggeration. The mid limit games in Vegas are exactly opposite unfortunatly, they don't have much action and are probably the worst I have played in my travels to most of the major card rooms in the US. Its hard to see the difference when the Vegas 4/8 games are even softer than Commerce games, kinda cool eh? Now if we could only apply the 4/8 mentality on the black chip games then I'd be a millionaire [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

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Bob - the 4/8 games in Vegas are hands down the easiest ones I have ever seen in my travels across the country, and thats no exaggeration.

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That poster I don't think mentioned whether he was comparing the Bellagio or Wynn 4/8 games to games all over the country or just to other games in LV. My impression was just to other games in LV based on the rest of that post but I'm really not sure. Doesn't matter because he didn't really say.


I'm not disputing that the 4/8 games in LV are insanely easy. and I don't think anyone else is either.
But of all the 4/8 games you've played in over and over in LV certainly some of those games had to be better whereas others had to be slightly tougher.

And this person stated that the toughest 4/8 he found in LV happened to be during a visit to Bellagio and Wynn which was my experience as well.
But this is not to say that those games weren't easy too. Just not quite as easy as some of the other 4/8 games I had played on my visit there.

I really think you're reading too much into a couple of the other statements made in this thread.

And, as I said, I 100% agree with your assessment on any player who thinks that 4/8 is tough.
But I'm not sure anyone in this whole thread has said that.

[MicroBob]

Also - I would rate the 4/8 games at Horseshoe-Tunica as slightly better than the 4/8 games in LV.

It's close though.
And my sample-size in LV is pretty smallish.
I played some incredibly bad and drunk players on my trip to LV who couldn't even see their own cards.
But I've played in too many 9 and 10-handed family pots in Tunica (sometimes capped PF and on the flop) and I put it a notch higher on the donky-ness scale.

[chillrob]

I found the 4-8 games in Vegas (Venetian, Bellagio, Wynn, Caesars) to be not nearly as good as the 4-8 in LA (Hollywood Park, Bicycle, Commerce, Hawaiian Gardens).

However, my Vegas games were mostly during the daytime during the week, and the LA games were mostly during the weekend evenings, which may be the important difference.
Fwiw, the games I played in at the Venetian and Bellagio were comparatively tougher than the ones at the Wynn and Caesar's. However, the 4-8 Omaha at the Bellagio was the loosest game I have ever played in, period, and I think half the people didn't even know all the rules. I went back the following two days to see if it was going again but was told they rarely spread the game although it is always popular when they do.

[Mook]

Thirty responses or so to this thread, and I can't BELIEVE no one has mentioned Mandalay Bay yet. We just returned from a 5-day jaunt to LV and I spent almost all of my last three days plunked down in their 4-8 game. How do I love thee? Let me count the ways:

(1) It's usually not just the lowest limit game they run but the ONLY limit game they run (MB did run a 2-4 on Monday night, but otherwise your choices were 4-8 or NL). Translation: a slew of 20-somethings who are there to get plastered and don't want to worry about dropping 200 bucks on one hand.

(2) It's the only 4-8 game I know of in Vegas with $1 and $2 blinds (a raise PF is to $6). Translation: Holy implied odds, Batman! Family pots were not only common but almost expected, and you get to exercise your postflop skill more often by (correctly) limping in for $2 with trash like 63s.

(3) The wonderful, glorious 1/2 kill, which kicks in when anyone takes down two pots in a row. Kill button posts a $3 blind and it's time for a little 6/12. Translation: Either your $100 pot is now $150, or you have a chance at taking down $50 or so with complete air if you can get heads up with someone who's petrified at the thought of calling a double-digit bet.

(4) The vibe and the atmosphere ... the MB poker room is right on the main drag and attracts drunk kids dropping $100s like moths to a porch light. People in Vegas go to the Wynn or Bellagio poker room to play poker ... they go to the Bay to get blitzed (and lemme tell you, that drink service is fast and efficient!), practice their pick-up lines and, oh yeah, drop a couple bills on the tables while they're at it.

(5) Did I mention the half kill? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I may put a trip report out there, but this may have to suffice ('cause I'm just lazy). Bottom line: Head to the far south of the Strip for your 4-8. Your wallet will thank you.

Mook