Online poker, and unpaid student loans…

[jackaaron]

One other thing on this, just to be totally clear. When you're a student, you get all of your regular loans, pay off your tuition and books, and have some left over for maybe rent, clothes, whatever. I'm not talking about that money. Once a year, you are eligible for an additional, fairly large, loan. For example, maybe you're wanting to get a very nice computer set up, or lap top because you think that will help you in your studies, and you don't have one now. Anyhow, this once a year loan is fairly large, and is just added on to what you'll be paying later on.

[CountingMyOuts]

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You sound like one of those morons that thinks that thinks that the First Amendment applies to non-governmental censorship. There is a huge difference between prohibition, entitlement and a loan contract.

Let me be clear, I am practically libertarian as far as governmental interference is concerned. But what you have here is the Goverment through its power to tax setting up a program to benefit society as a whole by making education available to those who otherwise could not afford it.

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Practically libertarian? Based on your response, I guess it's code for "dime store" libertarian.

Would a libertarian want to spend even more tax dollars policing college students and how they use their student loans? I don't think so.

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Using student loans to gamble is indefenseable. You want to gamble, fine, just don't do it with tax-payer money earmarked for education. Using this money for gambling is tantamount to fraud, and is no different than misappropriating any other type of funding-- for which there are criminal consequences. It has nothing to do with being a Nanny state, or being responsible for oneself. It is about misappropriating money and putting a program at risk that is for the education of others.

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Did I try to defend college students spending their loans on gambling (or anything else other than the intended college expenses)?

Using college student loans for gambling has everything to do with being responsible for oneself. If you default on your loans because you gambled them away, then you pay the price.

College students are adults, like it or not. If they default on their loans, then they should be held responsible for their actions. Just don't spend my tax dollars policing them after they sign the papers and receive the loan money.

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Not only does the government have EVERY right to take steps to see that the money it is lending for education gets USED for education, in the face of evidence that it is NOT being used for education, it has a responsibility to protect the taxpayers and the future generations that this program is intended to benefit.

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In the face of what evidence? Do you have statistics to back up this claim?

Again, don't spend my tax dollars policing these adults for every possible of misuse of their loans.

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Frankly, gambling with borrowed money where the lender believes the money is being lent for some other purpose is about as unethical as it gets. I don't think anyone at 2+2, which is a site for responsible gamblers, should be condoning it.

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I don't see where I said I condone college students using the loans for their online poker pursuits. I don't condone it and yes, it is unethical.

Still, they are adults. They are responsible for their decisions and their actions. Don't use my tax dollars to police them.

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You can quibble all you want about whether the Gov. can realistically police this, (and I might agree) but don't try to pass off gambling with the Gov.s' education loans as something that the Gov. has no business interfering with.

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I'm not going to quibble about how realistic their ability is to police this, because it's not realistic.

However, if you want to make sure college students aren't gambling away their student loans, you may as well start making sure they are not using their loan money at bars, carryouts, strip joints, tobacco shops, internet porn for pay, etc. Spending the loan money on the activities is no less ethical. When does the policing end?

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I never said anything about policing this whatsoever. What I am envisioning is the potential if this is a problem to put terms in the agreement that prohibit gambling, and penalties (perhaps even criminal) if the loan is defaulted and the money was spent on gambling. We can agree to disagree on whether that is appropriate, I simply proposed that it should be a consideration if the problem is bad enough.

PS I am libertarian as in I voted for Ed Clark.

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Fair enough [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sethypooh21]

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If I thought the student loan program was self-sustaining I would agree. But my impression is that this is a money drain program for the Gov. due to defaults on these loans.

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Semi-grunch, but LOL at this (and since this is politics forum material anyway, the program would be much less of a drain if the "free-marketeers" hadn't ensured that private middlement got their cut of as many loans as possible. How it is supposed to work is fed lends student money at X% over prime - how it actually works in all too many cases is fed lends private company money at (X-y)% over prime and private company lends to student at (x-y)+z% over prime, using some of that money on kickbacks to loan officers to choose the private lender over the cheaper fed program.

But sure, the problem is that college students spend their money on dumb things... OH NOES!

[MiltonFriedman]

" ... not have a way of paying it back."

Why can't the borrowers get a job and pay it back ? Payment/financing terms on Student Loans are not very onerous. It is not like they owe $150,000 to My Cousin Vinnie.

[MiltonFriedman]

"It is incredibly immoral and harmful to society for anyone to convert a program which is not only intended for one's own, but future generations education to bankroll their gambling. "

Which party is guaranteed against risk ?

PUHLEEEZE, get off the high horse there. It IS incredibly immoral for lenders and schools, which are businesses, to over extend credit KNOWING that defaults can be dumped on Uncle Sam.

If you want to have market discipline, STOP subsidizing poor lending practices for years on end.

[MiltonFriedman]

So, for how many student loans would you have the government insure lenders against risk of default ?

[MiltonFriedman]

"I think the relevant question is whether gambling with student loan money has reached a point where it is creating a problem which jeopardizes the program or the borrower's futures."

Compared to the effect of poor lending practices and government insurance against virtually ANY lender or school risk ? Which do you really think is a bigger problem ?

[Mendacious]

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"I think the relevant question is whether gambling with student loan money has reached a point where it is creating a problem which jeopardizes the program or the borrower's futures."

Compared to the effect of poor lending practices and government insurance against virtually ANY lender or school risk ? Which do you really think is a bigger problem ?

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I couldn't agree more, but I think what OP was driving at, and my point as well is that it would be a bad thing if online gambling became and easy scapegoat for Student Loan default. People will turn a blind eye towards all the crappy lending practices if they can simply point to online gaming and say-- "see, I told you so"!