Official 2007 NHL Offseason Thread - Page 5

Cry Me A River · #41 06-16-2007, 03:19 AM

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Predators to Hamilton, Canada is the rumor I see floating around. I know little about Canada. Hamilton is somewhere near Toronto right? Why do I see people saying that the area could use another team? Are there really a lot of people there wishing they had a team other than the Leafs to root for?

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Yes.

There are two teams in NYC. I'm willing to bet there are substantially more hockey fans in Southern Ontario than in New York City.

A team in Hamilton would draw from Western Toronto and all around the golden horseshoe (Niagara, St. Catharines) and as far West as London and maybe Windsor.

Hamilton pop 692,911
Mississauga 704,000 (less than half hour drive)
Kitchener-Waterloo 451,235 (less than 45 minute drive)
Oakville 165,613 (less than 20 minute drive)
St. Catharines-Niagara 390,317 (45 minute drive)
London 457,720 (~1 hour drive)
Guelph 127,009 (Half hour drive)

Easily 3 million people within an hour's drive.

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BTW, Hamilton is already selling season tickets. Selling tickets without a team, that's awesome! LOL

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And I bet they sell more tickets than in Nashville...

Triumph36 · #42 06-16-2007, 09:57 AM

uh.. there are 3 teams in the NYC area, ldo

the thing is that those people are already hockey fans, and will they convert from their beloved leafs?

wh1t3bread · #43 06-16-2007, 10:34 AM

CMAR,

I don't know how many people live in Southern Ontario. But 22 million people live in the NYC Metropolitan area. That's a huge difference. Not to mention what I'm sure is a huge difference in corporate money available to the teams for luxury suites, advertising revenue, etc., etc., etc.

Triumph36 · #44 06-16-2007, 10:48 AM

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CMAR,

I don't know how many people live in Southern Ontario. But 22 million people live in the NYC Metropolitan area. That's a huge difference. Not to mention what I'm sure is a huge difference in corporate money available to the teams for luxury suites, advertising revenue, etc., etc., etc.

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That area of Southern Ontario is certainly the most prosperous of Canada - and unlike NYC, hockey's the main sport. This isn't like the insane schemes to get a team back to Winnipeg or Quebec. I think they'll do well - almost certainly better than Nashville. Regardless, I think the league isn't too happy about this prospect - Canadian teams have the worst road attendance.

wh1t3bread · #45 06-16-2007, 11:36 AM

I'm not saying Southern Ontario is poor. I'm just saying it's tough to compare Southern Ontario to the NYC Metro area. Hell half of Southern Ontario's economic output is Toronto itself. That would be a hard sell to get much of that city to turn on it's beloved Leafs, no? I think it's fair for the sake of this discussion to subtract Toronto out of this.

Cry Me A River · #46 06-16-2007, 01:28 PM

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uh.. there are 3 teams in the NYC area, ldo

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I'm assuming the Devils don't draw a lot of fans from NYC itself. I may be wrong.

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the thing is that those people are already hockey fans, and will they convert from their beloved leafs?

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Prior to the Senators arrival, Ottawa was 75% Leafs fans and 25% Habs fans.

That's worked out just fine. I don't see why Southern Ontario would be any different.

At the very least, it would give hockey fans a second option, particularly corporate when it comes to promotions, entertaining clients, etc since Leafs games are basically sold out for the rest of eternity.

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I don't know how many people live in Southern Ontario. But 22 million people live in the NYC Metropolitan area. That's a huge difference. Not to mention what I'm sure is a huge difference in corporate money available to the teams for luxury suites, advertising revenue, etc., etc., etc.

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Yeah, but the point is what percentage of New Yorkers are hockey fans? 1%? Versus prolly 60%+ in Southern Ontario. 60% of 3 million (more if you actually start looking at the possibility of drawing fans from Toronto itself) is a better market than 1% of 22 million.

Srsly, you could prolly put a second team in Toronto as well as a team and Hamilton and they'd both do fine.

wh1t3bread · #47 06-16-2007, 01:46 PM

You are seriously underestimating the % of hockey fans in New York/NJ/Connecticut/Northeast PA. Still not sure if it's fair to compare those two areas. I'm sure a second team in Ontario would do much better than a team in Nashville though.

Cry Me A River · #48 06-16-2007, 01:56 PM

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I'm not saying Southern Ontario is poor. I'm just saying it's tough to compare Southern Ontario to the NYC Metro area. Hell half of Southern Ontario's economic output is Toronto itself. That would be a hard sell to get much of that city to turn on it's beloved Leafs, no? I think it's fair for the sake of this discussion to subtract Toronto out of this.

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Well no, Toronto is close enough that they will get fans from Toronto. Just not Leafs fans, except when The Leafs are playing the home team. Then half the building will be full of Leafs fans because season tickets holders will sell them their tickets for 4X face value just like they do in Ottawa. These divisional games actually serve to subsidise season tickets for many fans - If you're a Senators season ticket holder and sell the 4 Leafs games and 4 Habs games you've made back well over half the cost of your season. Doubtless there will be similar economies in Hamilton.

They'll get Bruins fan living in Toronto and Wings fan and Avalanche fan and Canucks fan and Senators fan and Habs fan. They'll all make the drive rather than try to get Leafs tickets (or in addition to).

And really you'll get people who just want to catch a hockey game. Particularly if the Hamilton team is any good or if there's a matchup with playoff implications, etc.

Here's the bottom line. The Hamilton market is arguably better than the Ottawa market. And Ottawa has had no problems with attendance. Ottawa's fincancial problems have all been the result of debt burden from expansion and costs to build infrastructure (arena, highway overpass). The problem was not the market it was ownership trying to get by with insufficient resources.

Ottawa is a government town and as such does not have the corporate clientelle that would be expected in a city its size. A Hamilton team will draw from at least as many people as Ottawa and the corporate infrastructure is going to be a lot better.

Cry Me A River · #49 06-16-2007, 02:07 PM

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You are seriously underestimating the % of hockey fans in New York/NJ/Connecticut/Northeast PA. Still not sure if it's fair to compare those two areas. I'm sure a second team in Ontario would do much better than a team in Nashville though.

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Sooooo one minute after telling me not to count Toronto fans in the Hamilton mix, now you're bringing in Conn and PA fans in discussing NYC hockey?

Hookay!

I'm not saying NYC is a bad hockey market or it doesn't deserve 2 (3) teams. I'm saying the level of interest in Southern Ontario (and Canada in general) dwarfs that of NYC, particularly as a percentage of population.

You really think much more than 1% of New Yorkers have watched a hockey game in the last year? Even if we went nuts and said 10% of NYC are hockey fans, that's still likely less than or about equal to the Hamilton market.

wh1t3bread · #50 06-16-2007, 02:12 PM

Connecticut and North Eastern PA (Poconos) can be considered part of the NYC Greater Metro Area. That's why I included them. Also THEY don't have an NHL team in those areas, while Toronto does. That's (already having a team with a huge fan base) the reason I think Toronto shouldn't be part of the discussion.