Do I have the nuts, or is is possible he has me beat?

[Grunch]

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I think T7 was the only hand that made sense for a boat and he just so happened to have it.

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I dont agree, QT and KT could easily be there too. Really the only hands we beat are another backdoor flush and KQ. Even then, KQ is usually raising preflop, esp if the players are good. I don't like the river shove.

[0evg0]

SSNL is so bad nitty.

[4_2_it]

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SSNL is so bad nitty.

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Why? Because we attempt to assign villain a range of hands and then tailor our advice to that range.

Tickner,

The biggest reason I do not like a 4-bet shove on that river is that there are not many (or any) worse hands that will call. Look at the other potential flush holdings for villain. There are only really 2 that a 22 VPiP player would be limping with and neither of them is strong enough to call a river push.

Villain played this hand very straightforward; unless you have a read that he is FOS then you have to tilt his range to mostly hands that have you crushed.

[bilbo-san]

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u guys dont think a flush will call my 4bet? seriously?

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A flush will not 3 bet you on the river almost ever in my experience. People play non-nut flushes very passively in general, especially if the board is paired.

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This is the best analysis.

Villains just don't 3-bet the river with less than the nut-flush when the board is paired (hell, they hardly ever put in the FIRST raise with less).

Since WE have the nut flush, it's really bad news.

[The Vookster]

call on the river is fine... I would not shove to be safe.

I would have ruled out QT and KT. I would think button would bet those on the flop with two checks in front and a big drawing board?

[Grunch]

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SSNL is so bad nitty.

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Are you able to post something other than insults? Or are you 100% useless?

[Novles]

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u guys dont think a flush will call my 4bet? seriously?

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How bad is villain? Only worst flushes (assuming villain is a 22/xx player) would be 89, J9 and maybe 56. J9 probably stacks off, but most sane players easily fold 56 and should be folding 89 to a shove.

Edit - Eliminate J9 because he would have flopped the straight.

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If he's limping T7s, he's also limping J8s, 86s, and suited Kings, no?

[0evg0]

Where else have I been insulting?

The point is, the majority of this forum misses soooo much value by assigning overly tight ranges.

[Tickner]

Guys, remember this is a LIMPED POT. The pot is small enough that most player WILL 3bet the river with a non nut flush. If it had been a raised pot - thus making the pot bigger - sure, they would probably call instead of 3bet, and it makes more sense, but look at the pot size. "OMG I HAVE A FLUSH AND I NEED TO EXTRACT MORE THAN $30!" - I know I'm 3betting in his spot with a flush most of the time depending on villians.

FWIW I agree with you guys that advocate a river call (although there is an intuitive feeling that shoving isnt really THAT bad).

However, I will say that folding is horrible.

[Tickner]

I also think its worth it to mention that "TRIP TENS!!!!!!!!!!" just got there, but that is probably a reason to call more than 4bet. Just a thought.