So U R going to LV During WSOP---STFU and watch!

[psandman]

Theres another issue. i don't worry about rulebooks opening up angle shooting. I see them as opening up table lawyering.

I have the unusual perspective of being both an attorney and a poker dealer which perhaps qualifies me for table lawyering, but the last thing I want to hear is some moron's interpretation of a rule based on an out of context reading ( this is a very common practice for nonlawyers who start doing legal research, they don't understand the context of a statute or decision and so they misapply it), or an argument about whether the position of the comma in the third clause means that it modifies the entire sentence or is just a modification of the second clause.

[Ghazban]

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But RR is pretty adamant that it's a bad thing. Something about "the only people who've ever asked to see a rule book are doing so to try to find new angles to shoot". I suspect he's mostly right.

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I'll give RR the benefit of the doubt but it seems not allowing people to see the rule book benefits the angle-shooters who have seen certain situations come up and spotted something they can use to shoot an angle in the future. If everybody can see the rules, at least the playing field is level. Without this, people who have played in the room forever have an inherent advantage when it comes to gray areas as they already know what a given ruling will be for given situation.

[aggie]

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It's also funny that you mention age as a determining factor of how well somebody knows the rules. In my experience young dealers know the rules better than some of the ones that have been around for a long time. There are exceptions to this of course.

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Please point out where above was implied.

reading comprehension at it's finest.

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hmm.....

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The funny thing is fully 75% of the time these colorful interactions are from under 30's youngsters with big bankrolls that think they know something about poker because they've played for 2-3 years.

A word to the wise. Young ego's are very easy to smash and be put on tilt, losing entire bankrolls. Learn to watch, listen, learn, and stfu. Chances are you'll be a far better player for it.


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[aggie]

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MOST of the time the people that play/work there full time know the rules.


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i stopped reading right here because i was laughing so hard. RU insane?

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So those that are working/playing there full time should ask the tourist how it should be?

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Actually i think they should know the rules. But when they don't i don't think they should be ashamed to ask the experienced players. I don't know how many times i've shown a dealer how to count the pot in PLO. And BTW, i'm under 30.

[aggie]

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But in Bigfishhead's case he asked the player if he could finish and the player told him 'no'.
Some players just won't listen to an explanation.

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Although I agree in BF's explanation that the player was out of line, the player does have the right to call the floor to get a rule clarification and the dealer shouldn't hold a grudge when this occurs since its the correct procedure.

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Exactly....I don't know how many times i've seen a dealer insist that they knew a rule only to have a floorperson called and be overturned.

[*TT*]

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But in Bigfishhead's case he asked the player if he could finish and the player told him 'no'.
Some players just won't listen to an explanation.

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Although I agree in BF's explanation that the player was out of line, the player does have the right to call the floor to get a rule clarification and the dealer shouldn't hold a grudge when this occurs since its the correct procedure.

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Exactly....I don't know how many times i've seen a dealer insist that they knew a rule only to have a floorperson called and be overturned.

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Not nearly as many times as the dealer has been correct. But its still the player's right to do so.

[rageotones]

are rooms in vegas not required to have a list of rules shown in the room? if so, it seems like the rulebook idea would be an unnecessary expense.

[VORP]

TT, In my experience it’s not that the tourist isn’t aware of the rule difference, it’s that they often arrogantly assume the dealer is wrong if the rule is different than what they are used to. The other day I was dealing and asked a new player if he wanted to post or wait for the bb.

“But I’m a new player.”
“That’s correct sir. As a new player you either need to post the bb or come in as the bb.”
The guy immediately got riled up, “That’s a stupid rule! I shouldn’t have to post. Nobody else on the strip makes new players post.”

I mean, what am I supposed to say to that? “Sorry sir, this is only the billionth hour I’ve spent at a poker table on the strip, I guess we’ve been doing it wrong all along”?! This isn’t a case of a player being confused, it’s someone who feels like being an ass.

[psandman]

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are rooms in vegas not required to have a list of rules shown in the room? if so, it seems like the rulebook idea would be an unnecessary expense.

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Only a few basic things are required to be posted -- such as the rake.

[*TT*]

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TT, In my experience it’s not that the tourist isn’t aware of the rule difference, it’s that they often arrogantly assume the dealer is wrong if the rule is different than what they are used to. The other day I was dealing and asked a new player if he wanted to post or wait for the bb.

“But I’m a new player.”
“That’s correct sir. As a new player you either need to post the bb or come in as the bb.”
The guy immediately got riled up, “That’s a stupid rule! I shouldn’t have to post. Nobody else on the strip makes new players post.”

I mean, what am I supposed to say to that? “Sorry sir, this is only the billionth hour I’ve spent at a poker table on the strip, I guess we’ve been doing it wrong all along”?! This isn’t a case of a player being confused, it’s someone who feels like being an ass.

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And your answer should be "I understand your concern sir, but that is the rule of this room. I can call over a floorman to discuss it if you like, but it would be unfair to the other players at the table who also posted, therefore I have to start the next hand while you wait for the floor." Then proceed to start the next hand without him. Its not too hard to be diplomatic and diffuse the headache while letting him get his silly little way. Its only a problem when it slows down or hurts the game - and often the dealer is a party to that along with the problematic player because he or she doesn't diffuse the situation properly.