Is Randy Moss a Hall of Famer right now?

[Richard Tanner]

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Cody,

The more I think about it, it's pretty hard to say TO's peak is higher than Marvin's, so I will retract that statement. I still hold that Moss' peak is higher.

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Moss played alone (other wide outs), so his numbers will be higher as a result of getting the majority of the looks.

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Eh, FO numbers only go back to 2000 and I don't know where else to get number of targets, but:

2003: Marvin-142, Moss-172
2002: Marvin-205, Moss-186
2001: Marvin-164, Moss-153
2000: Marvin-169, Moss-128

Here's how I think of it. DBs opposite Marvin are thinking "Damnit, he just caught another 10 yard out. Damnit, another 10 yard out. Damnit, another 10 yard out."

DBs opposite Moss (and to a lesser extent, TO) are thinking "[censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored]."

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Good point with the other WRs thing, I really couldn't think of any great ones that played with him, but apparently neither were hurting for touches.

About the DBs' thoughs, very funny. However, I'm lead to ask, does it really matter. If DBs against Harrison are saying "Well [censored] me, I'm gonna get burned for 10 yards" and DBs for Moss are saying "Well [censored] me, I might get torched this play" aren't they both saying "well [censored] me"? Given that both give DBs headaches, I'll take consistancy and longevity.

Concerning their peaks, if we agree that Moss' peak (numerically) was that 1-3 year period in there, and Harrisons peak (again using numbers) has been the last 8 (and counting I'd guess), then I suppose I can see the light in saying Moss peaked "higher" then Harrison, though like I said above, is that really an important metric here?

Cody

[BillNye]

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I wasn't aware he ever played alongside any great WRs, but if he did, this point is largely moot.


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I was referring to Chris Carter, heck Burleson was good enough to get a 49 million dollar contract from Seatle.

[BillNye]

Marvin had a weak start compared to Moss. Moss has been weak recently. If Moss gets back on track in NE, assuming they stick around for the same amount of years, Im sure there stats will be very simular.

[Richard Tanner]

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I wasn't aware he ever played alongside any great WRs, but if he did, this point is largely moot.


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I was referring to Chris Carter, heck Burleson was good enough to get a 49 million dollar contract from Seatle.

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I know the point you're trying to make and I agree, but don't cite contracts as a measure of worth [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Marvin had a weak start compared to Moss. Moss has been weak recently. If Moss gets back on track in NE, assuming they stick around for the same amount of years, Im sure there stats will be very simular.


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They both played on awful teams for a while (god those mid-90s Colts were awful, save for '95 Go Jim Go). I would imagine you're right and they're stats will be fairly similar towards the end. I would guess that Harrion's will be higher and I'm really rooting for him to play 'til he's 40 (it's not like he's ever taken a hit, he just curls into the fetal position) and break Rice's receptions and TDs records.

Cody

[Pudge714]

I think Moss's peak is better than Harrisons.
I think Harrison has a better career.
The advantages Moss gains from being the primary receiver a large percent of the time is not nearly as great as the disadvantage of constantly being double teamed and not playing with the best QB of all time.
Moss won't make the HOF unless he explodes in NE.
Moss shouldn't make the HOF unless he explodes in NE.
2007-08 Harrison >>>> 2007-08 Moss.
This
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His biggest flaw is/was always uninterest in losing teams/games. If you watched when the game was close, he was a completely different player.

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Is correct.

[PokerFink]

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I suppose I can see the light in saying Moss peaked "higher" then Harrison, though like I said above, is that really an important metric here?

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Somewhat important in terms of HOF, since there is precedent for players with short but very high peaks getting into Canton. In terms of who is the better overall player, no, not really.

Pudge's post is perfect. Moss has the higher peak, but Marvin has the better career.

[Triumph36]

i don't think moss has to 'explode' to make the HOF. he just has to be pretty good - i.e. better than he was in Oakland, but not as good as he was in Minnesota. i'm trying to think of a late career analogue but i can't.

[BillNye]

Besides being the deep threat, and the guy who makes the spectacular grab, Moss also showed his versatility in the return game briefly, trick plays, wr reverses, reverse passes (he wasnt LT but he had some nice tosses).

Harrison cathces the ball, hes damn good at it but he dosnt have much else going for him. He's not as fast, versatile, they both can make great grabs.

[TheNoodleMan]

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Besides being the deep threat, and the guy who makes the spectacular grab, Moss also showed his versatility in the return game briefly, trick plays, wr reverses, reverse passes (he wasnt LT but he had some nice tosses).

Harrison cathces the ball, hes damn good at it but he dosnt have much else going for him. He's not as fast, versatile, they both can make great grabs.

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This is meaningless nonsense.

Both guys were used to return punts early in their careers until it became obvious that they were too valuable to do that anymore because of the injury risk. Their return numbers are basically identical.

Yes, Moss has been involved in more trick plays but in the grand scheme of things how much value has he added with them?
Career rushing yards:
Moss: 159
Harrison: 28

Passing:
Moss: 8 AttT 4 Comp106 yards 2 TDs 1 INT
Harrison: none

These numbers are all basically meaningless when comparing the two. Its like saying that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are both great passers, but that Manning is a better QB because he has more career rushing yards.

[Assani Fisher]

His over the shoulder lateral at the end of the first half might be my favorite football play of all time.