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#41
05-01-2007, 11:57 AM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
He is saying buying a boat would be symptomatic of a person in the upper class. It would not cause you to be higher class, but most boat owners can be considered upper class. The comment was tongue in cheek, likening boat ownership to a signaling mechanism of the wealth/comfort of being upper class.
This is not to say that the middle class can't have boats. Some do. Some people like doodads. Edit: LOL "no one owns boats." 
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#42
05-01-2007, 12:09 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Joe Kennedy was not upper class. He was a bootlegging thug. His grandchildren are upper class. [/ QUOTE ] But are they? For the most part the ones I read about strike me as just your standard rich family people. Obviously having several generations of wealth does a lot to smooth the coarseness and gauche idiosyncrasies of the original earner, but do people in the US actually show deference to them for having that family history? The real difference between them and any number of other people from rich families is that their name is famous. Also, no one "owns" a boat. [/ QUOTE ] No. But people in the U.S. do show deference to the Kennedy family. Would Michael Skakel be getting a new trial if he wasn't a Kennedy? Of course the Bush family has taken over their post as America's pre-eminent aristocratic family. Re: boats. A guy at work has a saying, "If it flies, [censored] or floats, lease it." Re: income. People in this thread are using income as a sign of wealth. Net worth is the measure of wealth, not income.
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#43
05-01-2007, 12:24 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Joe Kennedy was not upper class. He was a bootlegging thug. His grandchildren are upper class. [/ QUOTE ] Re: income. People in this thread are using income as a sign of wealth. Net worth is the measure of wealth, not income. [/ QUOTE ] I think it works of a similar system to what the US uses for an accredited investor. You can qualify by income or net worth. I agree with daver's 250k for income and put net worth at somewhere around $2-4million. edit: Also i fully agree with those that think it is based on almost nothing more than money in America.
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#44
05-01-2007, 12:25 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[quote
Re: income. People in this thread are using income as a sign of wealth. Net worth is the measure of wealth, not income. [/ QUOTE ] 'True' net worth would take into account the discounted revenue stream one could earn from their labor. human capital is the primary driver of most people's worth. this is why is it is very rare, unless you are perhaps handicapped, to truly have negative net worth. though many people have negative net worth on paper.
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#45
05-01-2007, 12:27 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
Okay so 50 Cent is really seen as upper class, and not just a working class / underclass guy with money? [/ QUOTE ] By whom? By his banker and according to common sense, he's upper class. By his cultivated image, he may still claim ties elsewhere. But class is more economic in America than in England, on the whole. Yet despite that it is more perhaps more straightforward in essence, in America, the whole concept of class is a very uncomfortable one that we don't grapple with as honestly or well as people most everywhere else do commonly. Americans generally both deny class exists and scramble to describe themselves and nearly everyone else as middle class. People making half a million a year being in the same class as people who make $16,000 a year doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense, but there it is.
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#46
05-01-2007, 12:30 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
If you think that your money makes you better than everyone else then you're upper class. If you don't you're middle class (or potentially lower class if you like NASCAR). [/ QUOTE ] The thing is, this sentiment is common even among the lower middle class and on into the poor. Money-as-virtue is a common American idea.
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#47
05-01-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
One of the best books ever on class in America: Class: A Guide Through the American Status System Edit: Class in America is only tied to money in the vaguest way. Class is about how you treat others, how you see yourself, and how you tolerate the way others treat you. [/ QUOTE ] This was definitely an excellent book. Should be required reading for pretty much everyone.
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#48
05-01-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
Also, people confuse income with net worth, which is silly. [/ QUOTE ] Very much so. America is a spend as you go society. People very often see themselves and others in terms of what they spend, not what they have.
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#49
05-01-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
[ QUOTE ]
Jewish [/ QUOTE ] clearly upper class
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#50
05-01-2007, 01:09 PM
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Re: What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?
I'm just gonna throw this out there without too much thought, but might it be fair to say that at this point in America, famous people are the new upper class? That is, fame (even cheesy reality-show fame) allows the famous a certain access and privelege that even wealthy people don't typically have. The latest goober kicked off The Amazing Race probably has a much better shot at front-of-the-line VIP treatment than someone earning 200K a year. This sort of access-enabling status seems similar to the British idea of upper-classness, i.e. the bohemian fruitcake Duchess on a stipend that can still get in the Posh Hunt Club that keeps out Tony Blair, or whoever. I dunno, just thinking out loud...
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