Is It The Dog Breed Or The Owner?

[Mrs. Utah]

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Cattle dogs aren't taught to herd. They do it naturally.

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Really? The Blue Merle is a very exceptionally smart kind of Australian Shepherd dog, and I've known several of them. We sent them all off to be trained, and then trained them more specifically again when they came back to the farm. They pick up pretty quick, but it's not like they're born herding, you know...

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Blue Merles aren't exceptionally smart types of Australian shepherds. They are just blue ones. The same litter will produce both merles and more solid colors, in blues and red/browns, and sometimes black. What on earth are you thinking of?

And herd dogs do herd naturally. They'll even do it with little kids sometimes. The poster you're referring to didn't specify that they were highly or completely or specially trained in some way; just that they herd naturally. And he was right.

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This made me laugh. Its very true and not just little kids. We always had Old English Sheepdogs growing up and yes, any time you would run with them, they would body check you to keep you in line and guide you where they wanted you to go.

[katyseagull]

Wow, thank you everyone for your replies and advice! Sorry it took me so long to get back.

(Long work day [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] )



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These dogs like all dogs want to be dominant in pack hierarchy unlike other breads of dog they are very aggressive in maintaining their position or making a move up the ladder.
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and I'm sure their owners will tell you that they are just lovely, but then that’s what the owners whose doges savage their kids say, it was always so good wouldn’t hurt a fly then just suddenly turned.

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This is exactly why I'm concerned. Why is it whenever I read about a pit bull attack the owners and neighbors always say that the dog never showed any aggression and seemed to be a great family pet? I cannot believe that all these owners are cruel. My gut feeling is that many of these dogs are friendly but with an unpredictable aggressive side.

It's interesting that you say the breed tends to be aggressive about moving up the pack ladder. I honestly don't know how one would control this kind of thing. Sounds problematic to me!

I've had this discussion with several people at work as well as with my friends and you wouldn't believe how many people insist that it is not the breed but the owner that causes dogs to be aggressive.

[Blarg]

As a meme, it has gained traction.

[katyseagull]

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I would never own a pitbull. My dog was attacked and almost killed by a pitbull in February. Despite the attack and the fact that this dog was viciously beaten by 5 or 6 guys, it never turned on the humans or was anything but friendly to those beating him.


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If he is like so many others who think their ultra friendly pitbull isn't capable of hurting other dogs, I predict problems.

Part of this comes from my personal experience, however, it seems that everyone I speak to, from my mailman to the vet, to strangers at the dog park: their dogs were all attacked by pitbulls who never behaved aggressively towards humans.

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Mat, this is an important point. I'm very concerned about having a dog around that is aggressive towards other dogs. I don't want to have to worry about my neighbors' dogs and their little kids or some strangers dog when we go to the park. I think a dog that is aggressive towards another dog is not much worth having, for me anyway. I just can't imagine the amount of stress it would cause me. But then I'm being told by a couple people that I worry too much and I am being alarmist.

It's like you said, he's convinced that his would be an ultra friendly pit bull who would never harm a fly. He's just convinced of it.

[katyseagull]

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As a meme, it has gained traction.

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lol, I had to look that word up [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

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It's like you said, he's convinced that his would be an ultra friendly pit bull who would never harm a fly. He's just convinced of it.

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Being convinced of something without any evidence to support it and with some things suggesting otherwise is not reasonable. Maybe something else is going on here; maybe he feels like the lost abused dog nobody would give a home or something. I suggest giving him a hug and a scratch behind the ears, but when it comes to adopting potentially violent dogs whether you're into it or not, I recommend a whack on the snout with a rolled up newspaper.

[katyseagull]

cincykiddo,

thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate hearing both sides of this issue. I think it's very possible that I've bought into the hysteria over pit bulls. I've never actually known one though I've seen a bunch of them. They scare me with their large round heads and stocky bodies. (i'm more of a pointy-snout dog lover myself). I once met a pit bull type dog in a house my sister was renting. It had a massive head and short body. Let me tell you that thing was freaky looking.


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A third myth is pit bulls will “turn” on their owners. While this is false, the base for this is that fact that most dogs begin to challenge for their social positions at age two, says Dr. James Ha, an animal behavior professor at the University of Washington. He continues that if these behavior changes are anticipated and dealt with at the beginning, the dog quickly figures out his or her place in the pack and settles down.

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I think you have a valid point here. I've been around dogs for about 10 years now and have seen male dogs challenge their owners just to see how far they could go. It's just that the thought of a pit bull challenging me is well KINDA FREAKY, know what I mean?!

I was wondering why the dog pound has so many pit bulls in it. To me that is a troubling sign. I'm trying to figure out why so many of one breed would end up there.

[John Cole]

I may be the last person anyone would suspect of owning a pit bull, but we had one for two years. (Our son had it as a puppy, but he couldn't keep it, and it had not been, in any way, taught to be agressive.) Unfortunately, we decided to put her down after she attacked another dog, and we feared she may do harm to a dog's owner should it happen again. In addition, the town demanded that after the attack the dog be kept on a five foot leash and muzzled whenever outside.

She was always aggressive towards other animals, but only attacked after she had been attacked twice by other dogs first. In the first instance, a dog lept a fence and went after her. In the second, a dog was not leashed and attacked first. These attacks, I believe, further increased her already aggressive nature.

When she attacked, she succeeded in breaking the weld on the leash to free herself and did some damage to a Golden Retriever. (Mary was walking the dog at the time.) Fortunately, a passerby stopped and whacked her a few times in the head with a PLaymate cooler before our dog ripped the throat out of the Golden.

Towards human beings, however, our dog was exceedingly gentle (although I kept a close eye one her). She played with the neighborhood children, and even the mailman would take time out of his route to throw a ball for her. She was also, too, very protective. If a stranger came to the door, she would stand close to the door and let out a low, throaty growl. Once I let someone in, though, I never worried that she would do anyone harm. In addition, she was given considerable exercise. I would throw a ball for her for an hour in a football field in town, and we only stopped when I got tired. Even in the snow and ice, she would keep playing--sometimes with her tongue and feet bleeding. Pit bulls don't seem to feel pain.

She did obey well, and she reacted to discipline like other breeds. In a perfect setting, I can't think of a better dog.

However, I would not recommend someone taking one on unless the setting is perfect. Remember, this dog pulled apart the weld on the leash. Further, I'd be wary of an abused pit bull. Right now, I have a Boston Terrier, which, believe it or not, is sort of a miniature pit bull without the worry. My advice, Katy, tell him to adopt another breed.

One end note to the story. A couple of weeks after we put our dog down, Mary got a call from the owner of the Golden. Mary's first thought was that he was going to sue, so Mary offered to pay all the vet bills. Instead, the owner told Mary that he wouldn't think of it, and that we had been through enough already with putting our dog down. He was just calling to say how sorry he was that we had to put her down.

[katyseagull]

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Being convinced of something without any evidence to support it and with some things suggesting otherwise is not reasonable. Maybe something else is going on here; maybe he feels like the lost abused dog nobody would give a home or something. I suggest giving him a hug and a scratch behind the ears, but when it comes to adopting potentially violent dogs whether you're into it or not, I recommend a whack on the snout with a rolled up newspaper.

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Ok this post really did make me laugh out loud. Now if you could just come here and tell him he's being unreasonable I would greatly appreciate it.

I think it has to do with his big ego or something. He's convinced that when it comes to dogs he's smarter than the rest of us. I think to some extent he likes to prove people wrong. Also, he definitely feels a connection to dogs. His favorite dog was a rescue dog. When he first met that one it was chained up to a garage and had icicles on it's fur. He took pity on it and adopted it. I think it makes him feel good to rescue animals. Actually his whole family is really into dogs. They will sit for hours and talk about all the ones they've had over the years (I think I've heard the whole story like 5x now). I've never seen his family mistreat any animal; they are animal lovers for sure, very kind and gentle. In my opinion he and his family tend to err on the side of being a little too permissive with their dogs and not firm enough with discipline.

Now why he is fixated on pitbulls lately is beyond me. He never used to be!

Anyway, I'm with you guys who think rescuing an abused pit bull is insane. I mean my heart goes out to the little guy but let's get real. No one can tell what kind of long term effect mistreatment may have on an animal. This particular dog is supposed to be around 8 or 9 months old and from what I'm told it is very nervous acting and seems to be somewhat timid. I don't know about you but I think that's a bad sign myself.

I like your recommendation, Blarg. He might actually respond best to a whack on the snout.

[RunDownHouse]

Katy,

Adopt abused dog, send to the monks for training. It'll end up costing the same as a purebred, but if he's really into it for saving the dog, then maybe that's a solution.