Micro FR discussion

[King Spew]

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King- what site do you play on?

Do you use PT/HUD and how many table do you think is a good minimum number for a player in the lower limits like us?

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I have an account on both Stars and FTP. I play almost all on FTP w/ raketherake rakeback. As an aside for all reading this, sign up at FT through raketherake. Also, many 2+2 are members there and would love the referral cut (I signed up using a mod here). It's not much of a cut [3% I think] and it doesn't reduce your rakeback.

Pokertracker a must. No questions asked.

I prefer PAHUD over gametime. Many more options for on screen stats. There is also a hidden screen with more stats... I rarely use. And better support.

My HUD:
VP$IP/PFR/AF/WTSD/Hands
CBet/CBet turn/Folds to CBet
ATTempted Steals/Net $ won

I used to have more, but found I was playing the stats too much and not the table. <font color="blue"> Lose the icon. </font> I had tweaked the icons pretty well, but as with other stats, I played the icon, not the palyer/situation. As soon as I minimized to numbers part of it, I became a better player.

Now as far as how many tables. Boy that's a tough one. I can only tell you that when I'm in my comfort limit (50NL/100NL) I can 4-6 table FR pretty easily. I prefer 4. (Prepare for brag) I have four monitors and can follow the action on all tables at once. At 6Max, I can play 2 well, 3 is pushing my limit. Remember, I'm over 50 and my thinking is more calculated. Four FR tables allows plenty of time for notes or a deep think on a particular problem.

However, that's just me. Every probably needs to work their way up to the max they can play, and then back down one or two for optimal EV. IMHO.

[checkmate36]

Thanks for the extra info.

Im having no problems with 3-4 tables but I think thats the max for me.

[CaptVimes]

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As for my background, I'm a fish out of water here in the fr forum as I've been exclusively playing 6-max now since February. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Interesting. I have been playing Some 6-max since about the middle of March. I think it has helped my FR game a lot especially in the aggression dept. Plus with my VPIP around 24 and PFR around 13 I feel like a complete lag. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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My biggest issues seem to be largely mental. I'd like to get past worrying about whether I'm up or down at a particular session. I find I'm too frequently hell-bent on staying at a table until I'm at least breakeven even when I should leave, i.e., being outplayed (aggro Lag on left), having too many short stacks, or too few players left at the table. I also find it difficult to try to put many 10NL villains on a range of hands. Frequently it's pretty much atc and I'm just hoping they won't somehow suck out on me. This leads to a tendency to want to bet a bit higher at the early streets and then fearfully check the river afraid that there is somehow a monster lurking somewhere there. Although I think I have the early streets under control now, I'm still needing a fair amount of work on my river bets (or lack thereof). Again, I think this is largely a mental issue which needs to be worked through.

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Value betting the river is a hard thing to do. Especially on a somewhat scary board.
Also, multi-tabling doesn't leave you time to worry about the ups and downs as much. FR is definately easier to multi than 6-max. Mostly because I have play way more hands at FR.

[Wizzawig]

Nice idea for a thread checkmate.

I joined up on Party about a year ago with a bankroll of $100 and started playing 25NL (another one with no idea of bankroll issues) I played weak tight and was always afraid of the nuts on any board and my betting was weak. I never lost money though (more by luck..) and even got up to $200 but it was basically a break even stretch.

Then about 6 months ago I started to take it more seriously and bought PT and PAHUD (If any of you haven't got these seriously they are gold dust and will help you improve)

At this time I had been reading the forums and saw the suggested 20 buy ins so dropped down to 10NL because my bank roll was about $200.

I've been 4 tabling the 10's for a while now and am averaging 9.5 PTBB/100, and now play on party and stars with no rakeback on either. I've been thinking about moving back up to 25NL but didn't because I recently had ~5 buyin down swing. I imagine I will give it another shot soon.

I'm relatively happy with my game at the moment although I realize I have a lot to learn. I run about 22/14/3 maybe because I read the 6 max forums a lot originally even though I play full ring, I don't know if this will be a problem as I move up.

I have problems with playing when there's three bets pre flop (although at 10NL I don't think this is much of a issue) and I still think I stack off a bit easy (but it's so hard not to when muppets push pre with A7o and 3 bet TPWK.)

[LearningCurve]

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As for my background, I'm a fish out of water here in the fr forum as I've been exclusively playing 6-max now since February. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Interesting. I have been playing Some 6-max since about the middle of March. I think it has helped my FR game a lot especially in the aggression dept. Plus with my VPIP around 24 and PFR around 13 I feel like a complete lag. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]



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I can definitely see how it would help your fr game. In 6-max you have to be more aggressive, and agressive poker is a good thing in any format.



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Value betting the river is a hard thing to do. Especially on a somewhat scary board.
Also, multi-tabling doesn't leave you time to worry about the ups and downs as much. FR is definately easier to multi than 6-max. Mostly because I have play way more hands at FR.

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I'm hoping as my number of hands increases (I'm not sure of the exact number but &lt; 30,000 total) and I see more showdowns, my confidence in betting the river will grow. I really think this is largely a "maturational" issue, if you will.

As for your comments regarding multi-tabling, I definitely agree. I am a very poor 2-tabler. However, during the few occasions when I have tried it I've found I just don't have time to "worry." This makes multi-tabling an even more attractive goal!

[checkmate36]

I actually played some 6max today after reading about how it helped improve your FR game. Plus all the tables I kept sitting at went from 30% VP$IP down to 11-13. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Seems at 6max TP is a stronger hand than at FR. Plus I had TPTK and a player with nothing but a busted gut-shot called my river bet. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I may dabble in both since it can't hurt.

[LearningCurve]

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I actually played some 6max today after reading about how it helped improve your FR game. Plus all the tables I kept sitting at went from 30% VP$IP down to 11-13. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Seems at 6max TP is a stronger hand than at FR. Plus I had TPTK and a player with nothing but a busted gut-shot called my river bet. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I may dabble in both since it can't hurt.

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Checkmate,

It's obv player dependent, but at 10NL tptk frequently is a three streets of betting hand. In other words, it really is "the nuts." It's very different than at fr, which is why I've been concentrating exclusively on the one for now. So long as you can keep them straight though, I definitely think playing some 6-max will help your fr game.

Something else worth mentioning...when I first switched I played far more loosely than I should have. The blinds come around quickly and I was afraid of being bled dry by them. However, I found relatively early that marginal holdings can get you into trouble when there are aggressive lags on the left. They will call you down with atc and any tiny piece of the flop. IMO it's better to find a table with TAG's on your left or to not go too crazy with loosening your starting hand requirements.

GL and let me know what you think...

[xxrod17xx]

What do you guys think is the biggest difference between 25NL and 10NL. My bankroll has reached the point where I can take some shots playing up there and I want to know if I am going to see some different styles, more slowplaying, more agression or still ur basic LOOSE PASSIVE talbes?

[checkmate36]

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What do you guys think is the biggest difference between 25NL and 10NL.

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Good question. Maybe someone will fill us in that has been there done that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[_Apollo_]

biggest difference in levels are 10NL-&gt; 25NL and 50NL-&gt; 100NL.

At 10NL you can basically play the premiums and pocketpairs and you will make money because people don't fold easily with weaker hands.
At 25NL it's more poker postflop and you will have to open your preflop raising range imo.

For some reason I did not play that many hands at 10NL (because I stayed at 2NL and 5NL for way too long and I went quickly to 25NL for bonusses) but 10NL was just a little different from other lower stakes where 25NL was more agressive and tougher.

Basically, you will have to play agressive postflop, where at 10NL and below passive postflop was often the best approach.