How to extract the most from nuts?

[NYWalker]

betgo is "one of a kind" who likes to inflate the pot on the flop.

What if this is the first hand of this year's WSOP ME?

I don't want trigger another series of sideline debates, just FYI - in one of Tom McEvoy or T.J.'s books, it says Phil Hellmuth once folded KdJd on QdTdx flop early in the tournament against a big bet or a push. That's an extreme case.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
not betting that turn is a crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

[gobboboy]

You get the most from the nuts by betting when you have the best hand and they have a hand that probably has outs if behind. Very few common tournament players can fold that turn if they have a set, so bet and get the money in best. Bet 1200 and shove the river. If the board pairs and he crams, fold.

[Airharley]

I asked what I think is a similar question about calling all in preflop on the first hand of a tourney with QQ when 2 other people had already called the all in. The general idea of the question was at what level of tournament, meaning buy in amount etc, would you fold this preflop on the very first hand. Most of the answers I got said that if you would fold this kind of hand based on level of buy in, you shouldn't be playing in the tournament in the first place. Now, in my opinion for the WSOP ME, with the deep stacks, and these blinds, I'm probably more inclined to raise on the flop. I don't have much deepstack experience, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I would imagine that a tight player would be less inclined to push early in a deepstack tourney on this board. Just my opinion.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
betgo is "one of a kind" who likes to inflate the pot on the flop.

What if this is the first hand of this year's WSOP ME?

I don't want trigger another series of sideline debates, just FYI - in one of Tom McEvoy or T.J.'s books, it says Phil Hellmuth once folded KdJd on QdTdx flop early in the tournament against a big bet or a push. That's an extreme case.

[/ QUOTE ]
That was Doyle Brunson in SS2. Helmuth folded the OESFD to a push, which is different from not pushing with it. Also, this was Helmuth, and it assumes a big skill adbantage over the field, which you may not have.

Also, the pot is almost half your stack after you flat call on the flop, so I am not sure how small you can keep it.

[NYWalker]

(just off the topic)
Because we aren't Hellmuth and don't have that much skill advantage over the rest of the field yet, we deserve to get busted by moving in on a big draw? that's what our tournament life worth for now?

I've seen so many players busted in the first level after showing (with pride) a very math correct big draw (15+ outs drawing hand) and getting busted in the very first few hands in deep tournament. They want the table know they know pot-odd very well and the call of the push is math correct.

But, really, the joy of winning a tournament (which is pretty remote from one hand's win/loss) offsets all the "pains" of big laydowns...

[Airharley]

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen so many players busted in the first level after showing (with pride) a very math correct big draw (15+ outs drawing hand) and getting busted in the very first few hands in deep tournament. They want the table know they know pot-odd very well and the call of the push is math correct.

But, really, the joy of winning a tournament (which is pretty remote from one hand's win/loss) offsets all the "pains" of big laydowns...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very interesting point, I think I've learned a lot from this entire thread. This has made me think a lot, evaluate my play, and fix yet another place that needs some adjustment.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
(just off the topic)
Because we aren't Hellmuth and don't have that much skill advantage over the rest of the field yet, we deserve to get busted by moving in on a big draw? that's what our tournament life worth for now?

I've seen so many players busted in the first level after showing (with pride) a very math correct big draw (15+ outs drawing hand) and getting busted in the very first few hands in deep tournament. They want the table know they know pot-odd very well and the call of the push is math correct.

But, really, the joy of winning a tournament (which is pretty remote from one hand's win/loss) offsets all the "pains" of big laydowns...

[/ QUOTE ]
This has been discussed ad neuseum in this forum, but doesn't doubling up in level 1 improve your chances of winning the tournament?

[DDBeast]

As played, I would pot the river. You've showed weakness and a set is paying off. Of course, a turn bet is mandatory, as is just calling the flop.