Why Is AC/Libertarianism So Bothersome?

[Skidoo]

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Plus, they have horrible taste in literature. I mean really, Ayn Rand? Anyone who cites The Fountainhead as his or her favorite book becomes immediately suspect.

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Ayn Rand, in whose inner circle was one Alan Greenspan.

[tomdemaine]

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One problem with AC/Libertarianism is the idea of man as a rational being. ACers and libertarians often seem to believe that the oppression of the state interferes with man's inherently rational nature and that the lifting of the veil of statism will result in a New Enlightenment of super-rational thought. I am a bit more skeptical about anything like that happening, although I won't go so far as to endorse a Hobbesian view of man as brutish, nasty, and short. The philosophy seems stacked upon the faulty foundations of flawed axiomatic beliefs about basic human nature.

Plus, they have horrible taste in literature. I mean really, Ayn Rand? Anyone who cites The Fountainhead as his or her favorite book becomes immediately suspect.

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And you want these unenlightened irrational people to be voting for someone to hold enormous life or death power over you?

[AlexM]

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And you want these unenlightened irrational people to be voting for someone to hold enormous life or death power over you?

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This argument, while obvious and true, never works, as the people it's used against seem to believe the system weeds out the unenlightened irrational behavior. "Most people are stupid, but if we let them vote, their stupidity cancels out and they make good decisions." Something like that. And no, it makes no sense to me either. :P

(and then they complain when people like Bush get into office)

[bkholdem]

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And you want these unenlightened irrational people to be voting for someone to hold enormous life or death power over you?

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This argument, while obvious and true, never works, as the people it's used against seem to believe the system weeds out the unenlightened irrational behavior. "Most people are stupid, but if we let them vote, their stupidity cancels out and they make good decisions." Something like that. And no, it makes no sense to me either. :P

(and then they complain when people like Bush get into office)

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Well I guess we are in paradise then. Or if not paradise we will be when the government finally makes enough laws and regulations and has enought enforcers...

[Skidoo]

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"Most people are stupid, but if we let them vote, their stupidity cancels out and they make good decisions."

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The rationale of AC: "Immense fortunes tend to be expansively avaristic, but if we let the logic of the marketplace where such entities have home field advantage be the controlling influence in society, they won't act in any exploitive self-interest at the expense of the general prosperity, but rather their individual greediness will cancel out leaving the average person a winner."

[tomdemaine]

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"Most people are stupid, but if we let them vote, their stupidity cancels out and they make good decisions."

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The rationale of AC: "Immense fortunes tend to be expansively avaristic, but if we let the logic of the marketplace where such entities have home field advantage be the controlling influence in society, they won't act in any exploitive self-interest at the expense of the general prosperity, but rather their individual greediness will cancel out leaving the average person a winner."

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It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.

[AlexM]

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"Most people are stupid, but if we let them vote, their stupidity cancels out and they make good decisions."

[/ QUOTE ]

The rationale of AC: "Immense fortunes tend to be expansively avaristic, but if we let the logic of the marketplace where such entities have home field advantage be the controlling influence in society, they won't act in any exploitive self-interest at the expense of the general prosperity, but rather their individual greediness will cancel out leaving the average person a winner."

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Nope. It's "without government granting corporations the protections they need to function like they do, they cannot function like they do." Businesses will certainly try to gain power like you suggest, they simply won't be able to without government support. Not like they have currently anyway.

[hmkpoker]

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"Most people are stupid, but if we let them vote, their stupidity cancels out and they make good decisions."

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The rationale of AC: "Immense fortunes tend to be expansively avaristic, but if we let the logic of the marketplace where such entities have home field advantage be the controlling influence in society, they won't act in any exploitive self-interest at the expense of the general prosperity, but rather their individual greediness will cancel out leaving the average person a winner."

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If I may interject my own: individuals with enough wealth to not only be concerned about the immediate future but the distant future as well, will select peaceful social actions rather than violent ones to ensure that future-oriented wants are satisfied. Screwing people over hurts your chances for repeat business.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

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One problem with AC/Libertarianism is the idea of man as a rational being. ACers and libertarians often seem to believe that the oppression of the state interferes with man's inherently rational nature and that the lifting of the veil of statism will result in a New Enlightenment of super-rational thought. I am a bit more skeptical about anything like that happening, although I won't go so far as to endorse a Hobbesian view of man as brutish, nasty, and short. The philosophy seems stacked upon the faulty foundations of flawed axiomatic beliefs about basic human nature.

Plus, they have horrible taste in literature. I mean really, Ayn Rand? Anyone who cites The Fountainhead as his or her favorite book becomes immediately suspect.

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And you want these unenlightened irrational people to be voting for someone to hold enormous life or death power over you?

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My point is that these "unlightened irrational people" will still exist. ACers seem to think that these people will either disappear or be rendered irrelevant. I'm not so sure that is the case. Is AC or a minimal state sufficiently robust to survive if a large number of people are discontent with the system?

Does it, like communism, falsely attempt to simplistically define how people will think and react? I think that ACers in general have a poor grasp on basic human nature. A lot of ACers seem to think that their system will result in a dazzling array of groupings of like-minded people. I think that AC if instituted will probably result more in pseudo-ministates organized according to clan, family, and similar lines. With poor methods of rectification, kinship and ties of blood will become increasingly relied upon as a basis for trust.

[ShakeZula06]

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One problem with AC/Libertarianism is the idea of man as a rational being. ACers and libertarians often seem to believe that the oppression of the state interferes with man's inherently rational nature and that the lifting of the veil of statism will result in a New Enlightenment of super-rational thought. I am a bit more skeptical about anything like that happening, although I won't go so far as to endorse a Hobbesian view of man as brutish, nasty, and short. The philosophy seems stacked upon the faulty foundations of flawed axiomatic beliefs about basic human nature.

Plus, they have horrible taste in literature. I mean really, Ayn Rand? Anyone who cites The Fountainhead as his or her favorite book becomes immediately suspect.

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And you want these unenlightened irrational people to be voting for someone to hold enormous life or death power over you?

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My point is that these "unlightened irrational people" will still exist. ACers seem to think that these people will either disappear or be rendered irrelevant.

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Why does AC assume these irrational people will not exist?