Dealing with abusive player from the floor/dealer perspective.

[Boris]

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...but the well known player just couldn't stop swearing at me when I explained we don't tell players to STFU, we ask them to not talk.

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Why on earth would you explain to someone that you don't tell people to STFU? Is it not obvious that course of action will only escalate the situation?

[DeuceKicker]

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No one went toe to toe with him on math and/or logic mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]I know, I was just making a general statement. You did a good job of describing his jackassedness. I'm just saying that, in general, it does no good to go toe to toe with them about anything (odds or behavior).

I played this weekend with a typical TC who started making comments about someone's play before he even posted in the CO. He started picking on two wonderfully loose-passive guys at the table. I tried to deflect with a few lame jokes. When that didn't work, and after another guy got into a long dispute with him over his conduct (as opposed to game theory), I just started saying, "Let it go!" every time he opened his mouth. He never turned on me--in fact, he tried to enlist me as his accomplis with, "You're the best player at the table; you know what I'm talking about!" (thanks a lot, F*nut), but I just kept saying, "Let it go. Let it go."

It was the most I'd ever jawed with anybody at the table, but it was only to keep saying, "Let it go." I didn't want him to leave because once the fish he was berating busted out, he became the fish.

The funny thing is, he didn't seem to get mad at me. I think he was somewhat embarassed that he was being reprimanded like an errant schoolboy by a guy young enough to be his son, which made him tilt really hard. He went from probably 30/5/1 to 70/40/1. I changed seats twice to get position on him, and he virtually handed me two racks before storming off with a final tirade against a guy who had the nerve to call him with an OESD. But every time he lost another minimum buy-in, he smiled at me and asked if I wanted to sell him some chips. (Why not, they had started in his stack.)

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Several went off about him when he went to play pai gow and again when he busted.

[/ QUOTE ]This is the problem, and what Dids was getting at, I think. Maybe it's because I've had obnixious TCs the last few times I've played, but I'm getting tired of seven people sitting around quietly letting one guy lambaste another. If three or four people speak up and let the TC know that his behavior is unacceptable, but without feeding his need for attention by quibbling with him, most TCs will shut up.... I think. Anyway, I'm going to start trying it out and see how it works.

[bernie]

No need for a long explanation with examples. This type of player isn't exactly rare. I had one on the table, just as bad, last night. He was pathetic to watch.

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He had actually capped that hand with TT from the small blind. To deflect him from berating the fish more i let him know that he had infact capped preflop. He said "yes but i had the best hand! i'm not a moron!". I kindly informed him that it was not very likely that he had the best hand if he folded a kqx flop. At this point he decided to go on and on about how TT was a made hand.

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Why would you talk like this to one of these idiots and tell him how he should've played it?

It really seems like this is the first time you guys ever dealt with this type of person. If the guy really bothered you guys, and it was that bad( several hours, you say), one of you shoulda got some sack and called the floor earlier instead of waiting for big, bad Kyle to come in and help you out.

The way some of it reads(Dids threads) it seems you guys were just waiting for Kyle to show up so he could get involved.

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He didn't escalate it.


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He escalated it as far as him being involved. He's the rail. The game(as far as joining into a fray) isn't his concern unless he's in it. Not just because his buds are in it. If the game was that bad, his buds should've said something alot earlier. But the fact it was going on that long( several hours) without a floor call makes me believe it wasn't that bad.

b

[bernie]

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The debate about justification misses the point. You can't expect a dick to respond to reason or to show any kind of insight into his own behavior.

YES, you're justified in telling someone they're a dick, if it's true. But the greater good is NOT served by souring the mood at the table, nor in running off this guy who isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is.

Trying to argue points with people like this gets you nowhere. I find that completely off-topic humor interjected whenever guys like this start to rant is much more effective. It diffuses the tension, indirectly mocks the jackass, and doesn't violate the rules.

For example:

Jackass: "Good God! You call with that crap?? I can't believe you! What a total donk play..."

Me: (loudly to neighbor so everyone can hear) "You know, I had the most intresting bowel movement this morning. It kinda came out wider than long, so I damn near passed out. But the weird thing was, it kinda looked like the Virgin Mary. Or at least one of the Apostles. You think I could get some money for it on ebay?"

By now the table is laughing, and the jackass is deprived of the attention (which is what he really wants in the first place). And he also is getting the (correct) impression that everyone is laughing at HIM.

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LOL. I hope I remember that one. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

b

[bernie]

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Several went off about him when he went to play pai gow and again when he busted.

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His point was they still weren't disturbed enough to leave the game.

b

[NT!]

hahaha kyleb sounds like the perfect person to deal with this douche, so funny how nobody will admit it because he comes across like a gigantic dick. i would be laughing my ass off and buying kyleb a beer (although i also would have said something foul and disgusting enough about the table coach to shut him up before it ever got to this point).

[bernie]

link

Kind of the same thing, isn't it?

If it's not bad enough that a floor notices this stuff over several hours, and yes, the floor is probably well aware of him and what's going on. And it's not bad enough that dealer(s) aren't saying anything to a floor between downs over several hours and it isn't bad enough that any players at the table complain to the floor, then it isn't bad enough for someone from the rail to join in.

b

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
No need for a long explanation with examples. This type of player isn't exactly rare. I had one on the table, just as bad, last night. He was pathetic to watch.

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He had actually capped that hand with TT from the small blind. To deflect him from berating the fish more i let him know that he had infact capped preflop. He said "yes but i had the best hand! i'm not a moron!". I kindly informed him that it was not very likely that he had the best hand if he folded a kqx flop. At this point he decided to go on and on about how TT was a made hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you talk like this to one of these idiots and tell him how he should've played it?

It really seems like this is the first time you guys ever dealt with this type of person. If the guy really bothered you guys, and it was that bad( several hours, you say), one of you shoulda got some sack and called the floor earlier instead of waiting for big, bad Kyle to come in and help you out.

The way some of it reads(Dids threads) it seems you guys were just waiting for Kyle to show up so he could get involved.

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He didn't escalate it.


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He escalated it as far as him being involved. He's the rail. The game(as far as joining into a fray) isn't his concern unless he's in it. Not just because his buds are in it. If the game was that bad, his buds should've said something alot earlier. But the fact it was going on that long( several hours) without a floor call makes me believe it wasn't that bad.

b

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b,

I never told him how he should have played it. Maybe you can infer that i think he should have just called 3 from the blind instead of capping but i never talked about how he should play his hand. I also never said TT wasn't a made hand, nor did i say AK was better. I just said AK every time he said which is "blahblahblah" "ak or TT". It was obvious after a bit that the deflection wasn't working and a different tact was needed. I chose to move seats and mostly ignore him.

Obviously the floor should have been called during his earlier f-bomb tirade, that doesn't mean people were 'waiting for big bad kyle'. And when i say several hours bernie i mean several hours. Dids thread is less than accurate in several places which is why i clarified the whole situation here. The f-bomb and crazy bus driver situations both happened before any other 2p2ers even made it to parkers and i chose not to get involved at that time. While that was the best time to call the floor i'd been sitting for less than half an hour when those happened and didn't know how often he was being an ass or how bad it was overall yet.

[stabn]

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Several went off about him when he went to play pai gow and again when he busted.

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His point was they still weren't disturbed enough to leave the game.

b

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It was the only 4/8 table. A couple had actually requested and moved to the second game when it started up.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
link

Kind of the same thing, isn't it?

If it's not bad enough that a floor notices this stuff over several hours, and yes, the floor is probably well aware of him and what's going on. And it's not bad enough that dealer(s) aren't saying anything to a floor between downs over several hours and it isn't bad enough that any players at the table complain to the floor, then it isn't bad enough for someone from the rail to join in.

b

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The floor at parkers is not good overall bernie. Also during the f-bomb incident he was on the other side of the room. The dealer from the f-bomb incident was on break during the later kyleb situation and told the floor "if anyone at that table does anything again they should be kicked". The floor agreed and said that is why he has security watching the table now. (Guy at the end of the bar sitting on a stool, not sure if the other 2p2ers noticed him). He just hadn't had a chance to talk to the floor yet before kyle got there and the other dealers that pushed through missed the worst of it / are average at best.

I don't think dids should have created this thread though. Especially when using a specific example with imperfect details. All it did was rile the rail omg rail rail rail no talk rail guys up and make me give a long boring explanation as to what really happened.