[censored] [censored] [censored] RiversStars [censored] [censored] [censored] (crying)

[hasugopher]

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25o can make a nut straight

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yes, you should call there with 25o.

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lol. no.

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prop bet on a poll in MSNL? even though it's the land of the nits, I think they'll agree that 52o is a call there. given general idiocy and extreme nitiness, I would still be willing to bet that 35%+ of MSNL posters would agree it's a call there... or we could go to a generally agreed upon tribunal (say, let by El Diablo, LOL.) It is an easy call, man. LOOK AT THE TABLE.....!

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I'm not sure which is funnier, how upset you appear to be over me suggesting 25o is a fold here, or putting up a pole asking MSNL what they would do, as if they are all poker gods or something (there are some good posters there, don't get me wrong, but others not so much). I mean, I know we're 150bb+ deep with a couple players (not the original raiser), but are hand is abysmal, we have the worst position, [censored] relative position, and I have a nitty image to boot. Am I expecting to stack top pair/overpair on a 22x or 55x flop? come on. Or wait, are we waiting to stack a set on a 34A? FWIW, I'm one of the biggest winners over the last couple months at the stars 5/10 game, and ditto with the 2/4 game in the couple months before that.

Maybe I'm underestimating how bad these players are because I pretty much havn't played with any of them, but it seemed like they had a clue. I would love to hear your take on why this is a call with virtually any 2 (besides maybe hands with absolutely no potential, eg j4o), and please don't say pot odds...

[TheWorstPlayer]

first of all, chill out. i'm largely [censored] around - which is what BBV is for. for the record, I think folding KQ is bad, but folding 25o is fine. but most hands with high card strength and semi-connectedness or suitedness and semi-connectedness should be called with. look at the hand...

PokerStars Game #8301625487: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/02/05 - 23:02:38 (ET)
Table 'Josefa II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: jajajagunit ($722.50 in chips)
Seat 2: arni alo ($247.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Lukieplaya ($658.70 in chips)
you're playing 175bb against me, jaja and drseuss who is terrible
Seat 4: GogUMagog ($1548.60 in chips)
Seat 5: tops10 ($400 in chips)
Seat 6: DrSues02 ($1187.50 in chips)
Lukieplaya: posts small blind $2
GogUMagog: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GogUMagog [4h 6h]
tops10: raises $9 to $13
raises smallish - let's see how he plays postflop
DrSues02: calls $13
calls with 33, fine
jajajagunit: calls $13
calls with something, let's see how he plays postflop
arni alo: calls $13
one of the the biggest donks i've ever played with
Lukieplaya: folds
GogUMagog: calls $9
i'm re-raising something like QQ+ here, so very little chance of your not getting to see a flop
*** FLOP *** [5h 2s 3d]
GogUMagog: checks
tops10: checks
DrSues02: checks
jajajagunit: bets $32
bets less than half pot - ok
arni alo: folds
GogUMagog: calls $32
tops10: calls $32
check/overcalls - almost guaranteed to have something like A5 at best. his call here is terrible.
DrSues02: raises $131 to $163
telegraphs his hand, gets no action from worse hands except maybe 22
jajajagunit: folds
GogUMagog: calls $131
tops10: folds
*** TURN *** [5h 2s 3d] [7d]
tops10 is sitting out
GogUMagog: checks
DrSues02: bets $485
commits himself and his 250bb stack with the 4th nuts against a TAG opponent
GogUMagog: raises $887.60 to $1372.60 and is all-in
DrSues02: calls $526.50 and is all-in
calls getting less than 4:1 when he needs 4:1 odds against straights/sets IF i call preflop with A4o/64o. if i'm only calling 64s and A4s then he's crushed by 55 more often than not - yuck

So basically you have sick implied odds, you have (or should have) 100% control over your opponents (I knew he had a set to the extent that I was check/folding a board-pairing turn). You should really be calling any decent hand here. Against these guys, you can check/raise flop and then check/raise turn and they'll still pay you off with AA on the KKQ board...

[hasugopher]

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first of all, chill out. i'm largely [censored] around - which is what BBV is for. for the record, I think folding KQ is bad, but folding 25o is fine. but most hands with high card strength and semi-connectedness or suitedness and semi-connectedness should be called with. look at the hand...

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it's all good... and I see what you're saying about the KQ. I think that's marginal either way, but if the players are as bad as you're saying, then ya, v. easy call. I havn't played much in the last weeks and was just 12-tabling 2/4 to kinda get back into the groove. I think I had it on auto-muck after the UTG raise.

I think you're really overestimating our implied odds (and more specifically, how often we're goin to cold deck somebody bad enough to win a big pot here) in the 25o example, but your analysis of the hand is interesting and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TheWorstPlayer]

kewl. and you'll see in MSNL that I say I think you're a big winner and strong opponent. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

even if you didn't like my call.... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]