Pooh-Bah Post: Playing Junk From Late Position

[Jurrr]

Excellent post, very interesting to read.

If you check behind against an average TAG then you either have a monster (rarely) or more likely a mediocre hand that cannot stand pressure? The idea is that if somebody tries to exploit that by bluffing turn and river we still call him enough to make it unprofitable?

[ QUOTE ]
He likes to check-raise continuation bets big with small overpairs, unaware that against good players, this turns his hands into bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, what do you suggest him to do on a drawy board if he misclicked and didn't 3bet preflop? Donk and get floated/raised by you (and still possibly stacked if you have a monster) or simply allow you to play perfectly by folding? Check-call is bad if you have a draw. Yes, he's OOP and wants to control pot but I don't think a c/r is always bad against a habitual blind stealer who cbets as often as you suggest.

[ QUOTE ]
the last hand J9 is an auto flop bet there

[/ QUOTE ]I think the idea is that we get more value out of villain's bluffs than allowing him to play perfectly by cbetting when we actually have a hand.

[Redgrape]

There are a few leaks as expected but a lot of good info, gj.

[KnifeParty11]

great post, I like the random Shana pic

[beset]

[ QUOTE ]
He likes to check-raise continuation bets big with small overpairs, unaware that against good players, this turns his hands into bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, what do you suggest him to do on a drawy board if he misclicked and didn't 3bet preflop? Donk and get floated/raised by you (and still possibly stacked if you have a monster) or simply allow you to play perfectly by folding? Check-call is bad if you have a draw. Yes, he's OOP and wants to control pot but I don't think a c/r is always bad against a habitual blind stealer who cbets as often as you suggest.


[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't say it was bad he said it turns the hand into a bluff which against a good player it absolutely does. Bluffing with good hands is not against the rules.

[Jurrr]

[ QUOTE ]
Bluffing with good hands is not against the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not against the rules but it is not optimal; the best of the hands that you don't try to show down for value should be the bluffing hands imho.

Still, why cannot the checkraise with an overpair be for value against a habitual cbettor? Don't we get more value out of picking up the cbet than we lose due to being more likely to get stacked if he has a monster (which will be rare with his huge preflop range)?

This is all assuming no 3bet preflop for one reason or the other (I personally prefer to 3bet preflop and cover those 3bets with bluff 3bets).

[Dr_Doctr]

Very much enjoyed reading this post

[fringsrache]

very nice posts.

added to favorites

[beset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bluffing with good hands is not against the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not against the rules but it is not optimal; the best of the hands that you don't try to show down for value should be the bluffing hands imho.

Still, why cannot the checkraise with an overpair be for value against a habitual cbettor? Don't we get more value out of picking up the cbet than we lose due to being more likely to get stacked if he has a monster (which will be rare with his huge preflop range)?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but the raise is pure -EV if you are just trying to extract money from a bluffer. What does he call you with. Just call and check again if you think he has 3-4 outs on average and will hang himself. You are not giving a free card by calling.

The answer to your second question is no. You are OOP with a dangerous hand. The mission is keep the pot small. Check/raising with a low overpair in these spots is very bad unless you are working a line that does not get its value from your holding (i.e. bluffing). This is very basic TOP type stuff unless I am missing your point.

[Roger Mainfield]

Fantastic article!

[ycjason]

one of the best post of all time.