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#41
12-30-2006, 08:14 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] fish like to donkbet turn when they pickup a draw [/ QUOTE ] so, he has KcQc or some variation here? [/ QUOTE ] Bob, I know pretty much everyone gives you [censored] for [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]ing schneids on this site. Wouldn't you know his range better than us? It's not what would schneids 3-bet here pf, but what would he 3-bet you with pf? I play with krantz a lot. I will 3-bet him lite because he opens lite, so he started capping me lite. So against him I am usually looking to bet/3bet this turn, even if it's just a draw. Because he has ace hi a lot. How does schneids play at you here? I feel like any answer I give is worse than yours should be. [/ QUOTE ] why do you bet/3bet your draws v krantz? is he capable of folding ace hi given the mindf*ck lite-raises/many plays you guys seem to be making v each other? 
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#42
12-30-2006, 08:19 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I doubt a fold is correct here. I would be very surprised if any hands better than 1 pair are in his range here given how the hand played out. [/ QUOTE ] i was thinking the same thing, but then i couldnt figure out what he had. [/ QUOTE ] One pair or less. [/ QUOTE ] why do you all think schneids has to be weak here? he is obviously a tricky player who perhaps makes a fair amount of plays. i'm sure he probably sometimes plays good hands this way, too, or else he'd likely be too obvious.
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#43
12-30-2006, 09:35 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I doubt a fold is correct here. I would be very surprised if any hands better than 1 pair are in his range here given how the hand played out. [/ QUOTE ] i was thinking the same thing, but then i couldnt figure out what he had. [/ QUOTE ] One pair or less. [/ QUOTE ] why do you all think schneids has to be weak here? he is obviously a tricky player who perhaps makes a fair amount of plays. i'm sure he probably sometimes plays good hands this way, too, or else he'd likely be too obvious. [/ QUOTE ] Tell me what monster he plays like this.
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#44
12-30-2006, 09:54 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I doubt a fold is correct here. I would be very surprised if any hands better than 1 pair are in his range here given how the hand played out. [/ QUOTE ] i was thinking the same thing, but then i couldnt figure out what he had. [/ QUOTE ] One pair or less. [/ QUOTE ] why do you all think schneids has to be weak here? he is obviously a tricky player who perhaps makes a fair amount of plays. i'm sure he probably sometimes plays good hands this way, too, or else he'd likely be too obvious. [/ QUOTE ] Tell me what monster he plays like this. [/ QUOTE ] can he never play a set like this, just to mix things up, etc?
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#45
12-30-2006, 10:12 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I doubt a fold is correct here. I would be very surprised if any hands better than 1 pair are in his range here given how the hand played out. [/ QUOTE ] i was thinking the same thing, but then i couldnt figure out what he had. [/ QUOTE ] One pair or less. [/ QUOTE ] why do you all think schneids has to be weak here? he is obviously a tricky player who perhaps makes a fair amount of plays. i'm sure he probably sometimes plays good hands this way, too, or else he'd likely be too obvious. [/ QUOTE ] Tell me what monster he plays like this. [/ QUOTE ] can he never play a set like this, just to mix things up, etc? [/ QUOTE ] That would be dumb given the preflop action.
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#47
12-30-2006, 05:48 PM
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Re: I hate schneids
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The answer is clearly to find a slew of hands that you can beat and call down. Especially with a board like that there's lots of straight draws (OESD or gutshots) that I could have, and you beat all of them and hold one of the cards that are key to me being able to river you if I have a straight draw. The biggest thing about making pots big is you have to get creative in finding ways to not fold. Don't 4bet preflop if you're gonna fold ace high on this board, is what I'd say. Of course, I know what I had too, so, maybe there's some non-objectivity in my views [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] This hand reminds of Ed Miller's article on macro vs micro strategy. PB, I think you get overly involved in micro analysis of hands against Schneids and sometimes miss the big picture. Look at the result of this hand. You created a biggish pot preflop by 4-betting and then managed not to get to showdown on a fairly safe board. Now could you have been pwned by a hand like 55 or A9 after Mike value bet the turn and a blank river? Yes. Could you have called the turn and then folded the river if a K fell and Mike followed through on his bluff (which I suspect he would have, precisely to fold AQ/AJ)? Yes. But the first mistake is rather small and the second one is rather rare. If you are capping this preflop, it should be because you think you have a large equity advantage against Mike's range. And it should be with the intention of showing down a lot. When you do that, you take away a lot of Mike's weaponry. Most of the money went in when he was a dog, and he can only win if he makes a better hand than you. I think you need to accept that you can't good reads on Mike that you would like. This is for two reasons, both of which are why Mike is a great player. First, he is tricky enough to take a lot of strange lines that you simply have not seen often enough to recognize. Second, he is good enough to balance his plays so that a certain sequence of actions could represent either a strong hand or a weak one. The way you counter a tough tricky but loose player is to play better starters than him and build the pot early when you have a strong hand. Then you find ways to see showdowns cheaply with medium strength hands, fold when the board is really bad, and get value when you make a strong hand. Of course, the good player knows how to read hands and gets extra bets when he flops good and pays off less with weak hands. But you've neutralized his bluffing capabilities significantly. Now you counter-adjust by mixing in a few well-timed bluffs and a few well-timed laydowns, only after establishing an image that you are a straightforward player. I don't promise you such a strategy is going to give you an edge over Schneids, but it does limit very much how well he can do against you.
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#48
12-30-2006, 07:30 PM
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Re: I hate schneids
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goofball made a great observation when talking about this and via AIM. he said "i think that this is a great time to ask yourself 'what does he want me to do here?'" [/ QUOTE ] I think he wants you to raise so he can threebet. Unfortunately I have no clue if that's because he wants to make you fold or make you pay him off big. Calling the turn looks sort of like you're going into armadillo calldown mode, so he can play the river almost perfectly probably. Folding sucks because I think you have the best hand here a decent amount of the time. I'd do the not raise option, leaning toward calldown, but folding doesn't look too bad.
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#49
12-31-2006, 01:35 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
Nice thread Bob. I cant think of anything to add here that hasnt already been written. I think you learned a valuable lesson in this hand which is much more important than how you actually played the hand.
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#50
12-31-2006, 04:30 AM
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Re: I hate schneids
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I think you learned a valuable lesson in this hand which is much more important than how you actually played the hand. [/ QUOTE ] Which is what, that schneids is a spazz?
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