1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting - Page 5

toss · #41 12-02-2006, 04:52 PM

River seems a lot like a value bet so I'd probably find a fold in this spot.

I like the flop check behind for "I don't want to get pushed off my hand" purposes.

toss · #42 12-02-2006, 04:56 PM

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I do think folding turn is weak given that flop is as played. Marginal, but I think weak.

Btw, here's a hand against the same villain, on the same table, somewhat related. I thought it was pretty interesting too(but less so than the first one), so why not add to this topic...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($1008.30)
MP ($264.45)
Hero ($602.30)
Button ($153.90)
SB ($257.60)
BB ($167)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $26, 3 folds, UTG calls $20.

Flop: ($55) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $34, UTG calls $34.

Turn: ($123) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $80, UTG calls $80.

River: ($283) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $140

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If villain straightforward ABC123 TAG or does he know when to apply pressure?

If he's of the first breed I fold, if he's of the second I call.

Tickner · #43 12-02-2006, 05:20 PM

That second hand is really dependant on your history together. We could come up with arguments for both calling and folding, but only you could correctly apply it. It's hard to give good advice, but it's good to think about.

On the first level, he might say, ok I hit my hand and I don't think hes going to bet, so I'll bet.

On the second level, hes going to think, ok I've got a marginal hand, if he had me beat hes going to bet more than $140, so Ill throw out $140 as a blocker and if he raises me I'll muck it, and sometimes he will fold a bigger hand.

On the third level, he might think, ok thats a scarey card for him unless he has a boat, I am going to bet half the pot as a "value bet bluff" and even though hes getting 3-1 on the call, hes going to know that I know hes getting 3-1 and therefore I must have a monster hand so he will fold often because he thinks that I expect him to call.

Etc. Etc. Multiple level thinking is fun but confusing.

NEWPPSNKTHX · #44 12-02-2006, 05:45 PM

Hand 1: Fold the turn unless you think he is going to check the river when he gives up on a bluff. Either call turn/river or fold turn.

davekngs · #45 12-02-2006, 06:01 PM

I prefer betting the flop and chekcing the turn most times here.

Betting the turn folds out AK rather than giving him a free card and gets value from a smaller PP, while putting them on the defensive as you don't want that much pressure from him.

Then if its sort of safe to, check behind on the turn and evaluate river (probably calling a bet or putting in a value bet)

bilbo-san · #46 12-02-2006, 09:30 PM

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Checking flop is good, and u guys should do it with almost any hand that u 3beted pf with.

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I'll agree that it is good sometimes, but that's retarded to do it 100% of the time when we 3bet pf.

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He means you should check flops like this nearly 100% of the time that we 3-bet, not that you should check 100% of the time that you 3-bet.

gimmetheloot · #47 12-02-2006, 09:38 PM

I fold turn in hand one. Second hand, Jesus, i think its hella close, but prob muck (should, anyway)

cuserounder · #48 12-04-2006, 11:49 PM

I had a feeling you were a 2p2er, so I thought I'd see this hand up here at some point...

I don't want to give away too much info to so many people.. But to contribute a few things to the discussion..

I don't see myself as as a solid TAG.. More like a good LAG. At 100 max I was 33/18... I've been running bad at 200 and reeled it in a bit to get through the dry spell.

I was multi-tabling, so I didn't notice that UTG was short stacked, and my UTG+1 raising range is fairly wide usually..