Dirty Poker - How much is true???

[betgo]

I read some of the Marcus book. I am sure he is good at cheating people with cards in bars or whatever as well as cheating casinos at table games. His knowledge of poker is not that strong. There are several obvious errors. I think part of the problem is that the book is lacking in strong editing.

1. The story about the woman who didn't know how to play chess drawing two grandmaters makes no sense if you know anything about chess. It was supposedly told by a card sharp on the Titanic while clinging to debry before he froze to death. All of the people involved supposedly didn't survive. Also, other reports say that all the card sharps got aboard the life rafts.

2. He twice gives the probability of flopping a flush with two suited cards in holdem as .0085%. The currect probability is .0085 or .85%.

3. He claims that since the same people won multiple major tournaments, this proves cheating, because one strong professional would have only a slight advantage over another.

4. He implies that chip dumping in tournaments gives the participants a much greater advantage than it does.

5. He implies that final table deals in tournaments are suspicious and they show that a deal had been made before the tournament started.

[ronitonline]

If the WSOP is rigged they are doing a great job at having the amatuers win.

[orensi]

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he also states that High Stakes Poker on GSN is all a farce and all the players give each other their money back at the end of it. now...that doesn't sound totally insane, however, he bases his whole argument for it on the fact that, as he puts it...

"nobody would want to play for and possibly lose that kind of money..i mean come on...you'd have to be crazy" (i don't have the exact quote but this is like 90% exactly what he said)



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I think that if this quote is accurate (meaning he actually said it), then he belongs in the Aliens Abducted Me section...

[Red_Diamond]

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1. The story about the woman who didn't know how to play chess drawing two grandmaters makes no sense if you know anything about chess. It was supposedly told by a card sharp on the Titanic while clinging to debry before he froze to death. All of the people involved supposedly didn't survive. Also, other reports say that all the card sharps got aboard the life rafts.

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I was wondering where this story came from too. Two chessplayers playing a board the EXACT SAME???

I don't know if it was supposed to be a joke or not.

[omaha]

the chess thing is easy, and obvious when you know it.

My three year old could tie at least one by doing it

You seat two champions down where they cant see each other, one playing white, the other black.

You look at the first move by white.

THen you go over to the other table, and move the white piece to the same spot.

Then, at the second table, black moves.

You go back to the first table, and move that black piece.

And so on and so on.

Effectively, they are playing each other, and you are a conduit.

Since the result has to be either win/lose, or draw/draw, or stalemate, you must tie at least one of them

SImple really, aint it?

[omaha]

As for his collusion, it would be simple to beat it, just tighten up when players act after you.

His collusion is simply getting someone else to raise someone already in the pot.

As for collusion and chip dumping, yes, it is -ev, just read masons books.

However, if you think of the promotion possibilities of getting a few people to dump to you, i could see it as +ev

[RandomFluke]

I've heard the most common form of online cheating is friends at the same table sharing hole cards via instant messenger. Seems like a small advantage, but in the long term would be substantial.

I've never witnessed it personally.

[yoursmine]

Im curious about this as well. I read the Penn Gillette book in which his (most likely) fictional character described all the ways he would cheat at poker. While he was certainly an over the top caricature, most of his ways and means of cheating are certainly possible. If they are possible then someone is doing it.
In home games in my areas I have witnessed cheating in the form of attempted chip dumping on more than one occasion. If that is happening then I am sure other methods are being used as well and in other areas.

The bottom line is cheating in poker exists and since it exists then it is reasonable to believe it exists at even the highest levels (WSOP, big game, etc). Havent many on this board speculated that the regulars in the big game wait for a newcomer to sit down and play mainly against him? Would you want to attack Phil Ivey in such a game or would you go after the 47 year old millionaire with more money than card sense who wants to take a shot? This may not be cheating but its certainly right at the edge of what is ethical as it borders on collusion.

Cheating happens in poker. No one would deny that. How prevalent it is is anyones guess. Online is not exempt either (Justin Z, JJ Prodigy, etc)

[yoursmine]

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As for his collusion, it would be simple to beat it, just tighten up when players act after you.

His collusion is simply getting someone else to raise someone already in the pot.

As for collusion and chip dumping, yes, it is -ev, just read masons books.

However, if you think of the promotion possibilities of getting a few people to dump to you, i could see it as +ev

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SNGs certainly offer a method for two players to increase their ROI. Not actively playing against one another, whipsawing, knowing more of the cards that are out, etc are pretty big advantages at a 9 handed table. If you consistently average a second place or better (1st or both of you in the money) then you are making a profit.
Some of those on here with better math skills could probably figure out the edge but two knowledgeable players playing together in sngs could beat the game for more than one player playing twice as much.
The biggest edge is prehaps the fact that the other players think you are both playing straight up poker. That given they would get run over in many pots when they are playing against two hands at once.
MTTs may offer little edge to colluders but sngs or even cash games would offer quite a lot.

[Red_Diamond]

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The bottom line is cheating in poker exists and since it exists then it is reasonable to believe it exists at even the highest levels (WSOP, big game, etc).

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Cheating at the WSOP isn't anything new. People have been caught before, and I'm sure with the bigger fields, people will continue to try and cheat. There have been some really big names out there nabbed for this, it's just something that the staff doesn't like to publicize (for obvious reasons).