JJ vs. thac, turn question - Page 5

Bramsterdam · #41 10-30-2007, 03:14 PM

My first instinct was c/f and after reading and I haven't changed my opinion after reading the replies in this thread.

BombayBadboy · #42 10-30-2007, 03:23 PM

OOP, midpair with no chance of improving vs. a winning player at the level..---> c/f

Hince · #43 10-30-2007, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OOP, midpair with no chance of improving vs. a winning player at the level..---> c/f

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thac · #44 10-30-2007, 03:43 PM

Here's what I posted in uNL, I feel like a history of the biggest pots we've played together might sway some of the opinions.

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Okay, AZ didn't really describe our history well. Here are the three hands we've played together that I feel are meaningful. I have AZ at 21/15 over 500 hands. He seems to want to sit at my tables but maybe that's because I have good table selection and there's always some fish at my tables (or maybe I'm the fish).

These hands are in sequential order, the hand in the OP was after all of these.

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HAND #1
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This was the first hand I have played with AZ, I figured he knew I was raising the limper light. He knows me, and I know him, and we both know we're decent 2+2 regulars. So I shove and he folds.
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $131.15
SB: $98.50
BB: $112.90
UTG: $31.50
MP: $343.20
CO: $112.05

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $5, SB raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero raises to $131.15 and is All-In, SB folds

Results: $30 Pot
Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and WON $30 (+$16 NET)

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HAND #2
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This is the hand AZ talked about in his OP. I feel that the action of this hand is important in deciding Hero's turn line in the OP. It played out pretty standard but it's pretty good to see how it went in.
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $194.85
SB: $109.20
BB: $136.15
UTG: $60.35
MP: $165.30
Hero (CO): $100

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $4, SB folds, BB calls $3

Flop: ($12.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $11, BTN folds, BB raises to $38, Hero raises to $96 and is All-In, BB calls $58

Turn: ($204.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($204.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $204.50 Pot ($3 Rake)
BB showed K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Twos) and LOST (-$100 NET)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Jacks and Tens) and WON $201.50 (+$101.50 NET)

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HAND #3
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This was a hand where I didn't feel AZ was bluffing, and after he won the pot he said something like "The double barrel took it down." or something similar. Something to mention that he knew I was floating pretty light.
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $235.05
SB: $145.50
BB: $236.05
UTG: $100
CO: $241.65

Pre-Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $3.50, CO folds, Hero calls $3.50, SB folds, BB calls $2.50

Flop: ($11) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, UTG bets $8, Hero calls $8, BB folds

Turn: ($27) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $18, Hero folds

Results: $27 Pot ($1.35 Rake)
UTG mucked and WON $25.65 (+$14.15 NET)

----

So with that I'll let you guys discuss further.

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ikestoys · #45 10-30-2007, 03:45 PM

seems pretty std history tbh.

thac · #46 10-30-2007, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
seems pretty std history tbh.

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I agree, but him knowing that I float leads towards a bet because I can call lighter on the turn thinking he double barrels a decent amount of times (like with TT/99 or something).

djj6835 · #47 10-30-2007, 03:50 PM

These hands don't really change anything. I sill c/f. Maybe bc of the double barrel comment you will be more likely to make a play/peel on the turn but this would all be speculation. Seeing you do one thing and then thinking you will do the opposite next time is a dangerous assumption. The other hands are pretty standard stuff so pretty irrelevant imo.

thac · #48 10-30-2007, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thac,
I'm at work so don't have the hh, but I thought your line was pretty interesting here so feel free to post results if you've got them.

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Basically, I figured AZ is pretty strong or pretty weak when he bet again, without a diamond I would've raised the turn, but I didn't want him to fold a high diamond in case another one came because I felt I could get another bet out of him. I think checking the river was a mistake because he never has a hand that beats me when he checks, but here's the results:

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $129.15
CO: $99.60
Hero (BTN): $100
SB: $243.30
BB: $203.50
UTG: $100

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $3.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($8.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7

Turn: ($22.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14

River: ($50.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Results: $50.50 Pot ($2.50 Rake)
Hero showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Queens) and WON $48 (+$23.50 NET)
UTG showed J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Jacks) and LOST (-$24.50 NET)

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Snipe · #49 10-30-2007, 04:34 PM

Do you call a shove on the river?

thac · #50 10-30-2007, 04:37 PM

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Do you call a shove on the river?

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I would only beat a bluff..