A really cool hand I played

[craigthedeac]

woah woah, "easy call" offends you? Time to find a new website.

For the record, only reason I said "nope" was because whoever it was just gave some blip response with no explanation so I returned the favor.

*hands you a tissue*

[SootedPower]

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when you say he cannot call w/ AA/KK/QQ

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He won't call w/ AA/KK/QQ because he doesn't want to play a 4way pot with those hands.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

Hold on I'm cordially trying to respond to some posts.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

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As much as i like the thinking here....
The more i think about this hand the more i think you're being result oriented because of flop texture and hands in his range ur being oblivious to.

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What are some hands in his range I am oblivious to? Have I not mentioned every hand? Also, since you are so keen on these secret hands, please assign a range to them and do an EV calc.

[craigthedeac]

Just a general comment, "levels" aren't infinite. Therefore, saying that someone would do something just because you wouldn't normally expect them to do somthing is not convincing. It is possible that doing something is inherently bad.

Checking AA in the BB in a family limped pot is probably a bad idea, even though you would "level me" since I would never expect you to have AA.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

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ok to elaborate since I saw Greg mention it as well, 99 should not shove here. In a perfect world where he knows Greg has a marginal hand yes it becomes a good shove.

However, Greg's range here is like 90% air/monster... meaning a shove by 99 is -EV for the obvious reason that Greg folds his air and instacalls monsters. He rarely has a hand like 88.

It's range versus range. Shoving 99 is good only against a tiny part of Greg's range but awful versus the rest.

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So using this reasoning, how is 99 different from say QQ? Is this because you think he instacalls TT/JJ? Those hands seem to be the only issue because we're flipping AK regardless of our pair and obviously getting crushed by KK/AA. I guess what I'm wondering is what constitutes a monster?

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IMO, 99 is no different than QQ in this example. Because of all the dead money, and due to my play, and due to preposterous' play, and due to our history, he will be shoving 99+ preflop. They can't get to the flop.

It would be crazy to say he does not 4-bet/shove QQ preflop. I think we can agree on that. So, the question becomes: can he have 99-JJ here? Would you shove 99-JJ here? What reason does he have to think that I will call with worse, or fold better?

[Fistdantilus]

With your description (insta-call, insta-push), it almost looks like he's going to push flop with ATC. After hero bets, there's roughly 350 in the pot with villian getting 3:1 on a push if called (yeah, it's odd thinking this way, but something like AK is only a 3:1 dog to something like QJ and he leads all draws, etc). Assuming he puts you on a wide range as well, added with fair FE (yeti), might make it fairly easy on his part to push with whatever he initially raised with.

Though I'd probably never make the call.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

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As much as i like the thinking here....
The more i think about this hand the more i think you're being result oriented because of flop texture and hands in his range ur being oblivious to.

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I'm going to go ahead and say all the thoughts/conclusions you've made in this hand he's made as well. Thus when you say he cannot call w/ AA/KK/QQ pf I'm going to say that yes he can, for the very reason that he thinks you can't.

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The reasons that he cannot have a high pocket pair here have already been discussed. I'll throw some out again though:

1) All the dead money
2) Two people left to act behind
3) I won't always cbet
4) He WILL HAVE TO shove almost any flop and thus risk his entire stack while having no idea what my range is with a one pair hand.


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Because if he thinks you're squeezing light he's going to take his position, shove over your continuation bet and convince you to call with a hand as weak as 88.

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There are two people behind him preflop which is why he will never do this.
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Because I'm assuming if he shoves his AA there you're folding, as is everyone that cold called his raise.

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Remember, he doesn't know my hand. Also, I will call his shove light because he could easily be resqueezing and there will be a lot of money in the pot already, giving me better odds.
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Also, Craigthedec, apparently you and Greg are friends by the way you're responding in this thread but I think your arrogance is kind of disrespectful, since you seem to be saying 'hey everyone here i know greg and thus am better than you' with every post you've made in this thread. Maybe arrogance isn't the right word- but condescending is. Just something to consider. What I am referring to are your answers 'nope' 'easy call' , etc.

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Craig has been pretty tame, as have I, but you are the one coming on here, "assuming" all these things without backing anything with any piece of evidence or logic at all.

[Redgrape]

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As much as i like the thinking here....
The more i think about this hand the more i think you're being result oriented because of flop texture and hands in his range ur being oblivious to.

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What are some hands in his range I am oblivious to? Have I not mentioned every hand? Also, since you are so keen on these secret hands, please assign a range to them and do an EV calc.

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Q6, Q5, 65, 66, 55.
Also your being oblivious that opp, especially one that is mixing up his game id assume (aka is going to call at least sometimes with AA/KK), is going to raise AA/KK everytime, a guy who is a winner at 2k nl is not going to win if he's this predictable. Also, i see reasoning for calling with a lot of hands, especially considering that overcalls behind are completely obvious of holdings and will fold sometimes anyway as they did.
Also, for opp to shove here everytime no matter what is stupid, and i highly doubt this guy is just going to spew.
So that being said, i dont think this is a flop opp is planning to shove if he has air. He probably has some flops in mind but Q high doesn't seem like it. Something like A high or K high yes.

So that being said i think you're being result oriented and happened to run into air/combo draw here.

[Redgrape]

Oh wow completely missed that.
" Because if he thinks you're squeezing light he's going to take his position, shove over your continuation bet and convince you to call with a hand as weak as 88.


There are two people behind him preflop which is why he will never do this."

There is no way he's planning to shove over ur cont bet with air, at least not a lot, if this is the case, which makes it a worse call imo.