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#41
08-18-2007, 07:25 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm quite certain I do in fact play against tricky opponents at your levels, champ. Interestingly enough, on 2p2 which is chock full of brilliant responses such as HAHAHAHAHA SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE PWNAMENTS OBV SHOVE SPOT HAHAHAA, you chose to claim that MY commentary doesn't help you at all. Intriguing that you posted it b/c you were "confused" - you've responded several times within an hour that you have him on a set hand range and that he can't have anything you beat. Doesn't seem like you're all that confused to me. Your opponent can never have 99/TT here? The aforementioned T9 of hearts etc? Air? I'm not sure why you think AA/KK are so prevalent, think he plays them like this? And the point about preflop play is valid. Not every hand is going to be a walk in the park for you where he calls and then hands the pot to you on the flop. If you can't proceed when you get bet into on a pretty good board for your hand, don't 3 bet pre. [/ QUOTE ] I never said I was "sure" that I was ahead, and I am legitimately confused. I was rationalizing my fold (rightly or wrongly). In any event I will ask you what type of competent player is going to lead into a pf 3-bettor w/ 99 here? Or, in the alternative, can you list all the hands that a player would donk into me here that I'm beating - when he KNOWS i'm aggro and will shove over the top quite often. [/ QUOTE ] For those of you who think that villain shows up with 88-TT here a lot, do you think he's bet/folding or betting to induce a shove from AK/AQ and snap calling? I see no other reason to play 88-TT like this, and bet/folding vs an aggro player seems bad, and bet calling seems equally bad. This villain might not be as rational as I'm giving him credit for however, so that should be taken into consideration. Donking this flop with a draw is retarded IMO, and I'm pretty sure he'd always go for a c/rai with a FD here. If he has AA/KK I actually like his line because he usually gets worse pairs to shove out of confusion, and often gets AQ/AK to shove as well. Assuming villain is smart, he realizes he can maximize value vs AK/AQ here by bet/calling with a big pair instead c/ring all in because if OP has AK/AQ he's obviously folding to a c/r, so all villain would get was his c-bet while donking the flop will often result in villain stacking OP. 
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#42
08-18-2007, 07:27 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
I'd also like to add that I think shoving is OK here, and likely would do it myself out of sheer curiosity. If you play with this guy a decent amount (which it sounds like you do not), shoving and making a note if you're beat seems like the right thing to do. I just think that there are a lot of good reasons to fold in this spot that people aren't realizing.
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#43
08-18-2007, 07:30 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
I'd also like to add that I think shoving is OK here, and likely would do it myself out of sheer curiosity. [/ QUOTE ] Loc: Valuestacking myself Just thought that was funny. I would shove too, but for value not curiosity.
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#44
08-18-2007, 07:33 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'd also like to add that I think shoving is OK here, and likely would do it myself out of sheer curiosity. [/ QUOTE ] Loc: Valuestacking myself Just thought that was funny. I would shove too, but for value not curiosity. [/ QUOTE ] Ya I value stack myself a lot, but usually when I have the lead in a hand. Also, since you're shoving for value, what do you expect to get called by that you're ahead of?
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#47
08-18-2007, 09:12 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
Anyway, I folded. But just two minutes ago I tracked villain down at another table and asked if he minded sharing what he had that hand.
HenryII: "Oh yeah, I remember that hand. I ruined AA." And this is not to vindicate my fold - but, damn, alarm bells surely went off when he donked into w/ a sizeable bet. I still think it is quite rare for somewhat good opponents to lead here w/ 88-TT, or other hands that I actually beat. Definitely was an interesting hand.
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#48
08-18-2007, 09:14 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
weird
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#49
08-18-2007, 09:25 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
i have no idea why you would post this hand. you are obviously gonna get some stupid responses and just frustrate yourself man. just msg a few ppl on aim about it. [/ QUOTE ] lol
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#50
08-18-2007, 09:45 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I folded. But just two minutes ago I tracked villain down at another table and asked if he minded sharing what he had that hand. HenryII: "Oh yeah, I remember that hand. I ruined AA." And this is not to vindicate my fold - but, damn, alarm bells surely went off when he donked into w/ a sizeable bet. I still think it is quite rare for somewhat good opponents to lead here w/ 88-TT, or other hands that I actually beat. Definitely was an interesting hand. [/ QUOTE ] I knew I wasn't crazy, thanks for sharing this, this makes me happy.
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