Controversy with Sheets?!?! - Page 5

Erik Blazynski · #41 04-09-2006, 12:53 AM

that is the case, but if the dealer is going to control that action by telling the player not to put his chips in the center, then it should also be the dealers responsibility to inform the players of the action that he put the kbosh on. No need to blame anyone, it just happened.

uclabruinz · #42 04-09-2006, 12:56 AM

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I have to highly disagree with the consensus here.

It's your responsibility to know what's going on at the table. If you don't it's your own problem not the dealers. I know I could easily make that mistake but it's not the dealers job to tell you all the action leading up to you if you weren't paying attention. (in fact I think it'd be wrong for a dealer to do this because if you aren't paying attention why should you now know what people did) T3o push=exit--you can't blame anyone other than yourself for this.

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It's the dealer's responsibility to make sure that the rules are complied with, and if the rule says that you have to move a significant portion of your stack in when you declare all-in, and the dealer doesn't enforce it, that's the dealer's fault.

wheatrich · #43 04-09-2006, 01:03 AM

I do agree dealers all should be more consistent but if you got paid what they did (hence why the best people aren't poker dealers) and are usually treated like crap all day you wouldn't care either.

Part of this problem is the inconsistent set of rules (including enforcement of them) and another part is lack of dealers who actually care about the job they are doing. Can't blame #2 as much as I easily can #1.

For sure it is a tough break sheets and maybe I'll someday screw up and finish high in a big event as I'm sure some people here are now rooting for.

jlocdog · #44 04-09-2006, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have to highly disagree with the consensus here.

It's your responsibility to know what's going on at the table. If you don't it's your own problem not the dealers. I know I could easily make that mistake but it's not the dealers job to tell you all the action leading up to you if you weren't paying attention.

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Actually it is. The dealer is responsible to call all action at the table. Wheather it be a fold, call or raise the dealer is there to verbalise all action. That is why he gets paid.

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(in fact I think it'd be wrong for a dealer to do this because if you aren't paying attention why should you now know what people did)

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This is his job. This is not a battle of who can be sneaky. You are dealing with a ton of money here and the object of this game is to give everybody a fair shake and the same information that is available. [ QUOTE ]

T3o push=exit--you can't blame anyone other than yourself for this.

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This is as a ridiculous a statement I have ever heard. If you are trying to tell me that the hand Sheets is holding has anything to do with anything than I think you have missed the bus. What Sheets holds or the move he made is not the issue here. If it was easily decifered that seat 1 moved all in than I guarantee you that sheets folds without a second thought. His move was based soley on him being heads up with the BB.

The issue here is whether a person all in should make some/any/a little/a remote/a sneeze of implication that he is in fact all in. This is not hide and seek.

sheetsworld · #45 04-09-2006, 01:53 AM

It was only an accident that I didnt immediately muck my hand when the bb folded...now THAT would have made for a sick ruling...I wouldnt have even gotten to run the cards off i think.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee

sheets

jlocdog · #46 04-09-2006, 01:55 AM

Push that envelope my friend.........push it!

wheatrich · #47 04-09-2006, 02:24 AM

Every time it's my BB and it's your SB please push hands like T3o... Anyway...

"object of this game is to give everybody a fair shake and the same information that is available."

The object of this game is to make money. NOBODY cares about "fair shakes". Say your opponent did this to you--would you refund his $--of course you wouldn't. If you expect someone working in a casino to give you a fair shake... I mean come on.

"That's why the dealer gets paid"

Let's see you don't pay for the dealer, he doesn't get paid much, and you fully expect him to do everything perfectly treat you like you're paying him $100/hr? (I think most casinos the tips are still split amongst all the dealers) I'll quote you back at yourself "This is as a ridiculous a statement I have ever heard."

I also think a T3 push in the SB is generally a bad play in almost every situation. Since I don't know the exact situation (stack/blind sizes and the type of player in the BB and his stack, etc) I certainly can't elaborate further. I also can't say I've ever not pushed T3o in the SB and if I made a mistake not hearing someone pushing allin I wouldn't be blaming the dealer.

Since the one player didn't fold had you been paying attention you'd know he didn't fold. The cards didn't disappear. The dealer is NOT responsible for any mistake that YOU make. Dealers will always make mistakes this isn't online poker.

Also, in one of the other posts in this topic--I did say that dealers need to be more consistent and I agree with you on that. With regards to you thinking they should treat you like you are six years old by telling you everything that everyone did--I don't agree with it regardless if that's what they are officially paid to do (I have no idea since I obviously have never been a dealer).

jlocdog · #48 04-09-2006, 03:03 AM

I don't feel like breaking down your assanine comments because it actually hurts me to come to the realization that people think the way you do.

Obviously you still havn't understood the point that it is not his hand that is at issue here. Your slick comment of come at me with T3o anytime is a useless statement and I don't feel like continuing down that road.

I will though respond thoroughly to your post as a whole at a later time when I am not so drunk and can comprehend the moronic views that you hold so dearly.

AlphaWice · #49 04-09-2006, 03:14 AM

To anyone that says that sheets was in the wrong, consider the possibility of angle shooting first. The fact is, there is always doubt regarding a verbal action, which makes angle shooting possible. The rule should remove this possibility.

jack_of_hearts · #50 04-09-2006, 03:56 AM

Something similiar happened at one of my tables at the PCA with John Phan. Phan is in seat 1 and either raises or pushes I don't remember. Folds to the SB in seat 8 or 9. SB asks the dealer if there was any action and he says no SB pushes. John tries to tell him to wait but he's made his move already. Dealer says the action is binding. John tells him its his option to let the guy take his chips back or not. John tells the player since he was misinformed he can take back the chips. John said a similiar thing happened durinthe tourny and floor said this was acceptable.

John said he thought it was the right thing to do and reminded the player to watch the action. I wasn't there the 1st time for the ruling from the floor but I thought it was a class act move from John Phan. Yes you can argue he was on a steal as we were near the bubble and he didn't want action but said he'd do it regardless of the cards and hoped if the same thing happened to him he'd be given the same courtesy.