Really Rich Guys - Top 10 Traders

[El Diablo]

Barron,

"all in all, i would be SHOCKED if he was worth less than $7-8billion."

Just for comparison's sake, from the article linked by ozy:

Steve Cohen
SAC Capital Advisors
Size: $12 billion
Net worth estimated at $3 billion.

Eddie Lampert
ESL Investments
Size: $18 billion
With estimated net worth of $3.8 billion, the richest man in Connecticut, which is saying something.

Kenneth Griffin
Citadel Investment Group
Size: $13.5 billion
Net worth estimated at $1.7 billion.

James Simons
Renaissance Technologies
Size: $24 billion
Net worth estimated at $4 billion.

David Shaw
D.E. Shaw & Co.
Size: $26.3 billion
Estimated net worth of $1 billion.

[Scorpion Man]

A lot of this argument depends on how you define "worth". Hedge fund and private equity guys are the only ones who have to earn it all in CASH for it to count. A lot of the other guys have it all "capped up" by the market for them and own it in stock, but get very little actual cash flow out of the business. If all they could count was accumulated cash flows it would be paltry in comparison to the stated net worths...so, if these people plan on continuing you could argue that you have to cap up their earnings...quoting Jim Simon's liquid net worth while ignoring his truly awesome earnings power is way understating his net worth, IMO. The IPO of FIG proved this out.

[El Diablo]

SM,

I have no idea about this article, but when publications like Forbes/Fortune do net worth calculations, they take into account the value of equity in private companies.

[Roan]

At what point do these guys, with their 10's of billions in the market cease "trading on" the market and become the market themselves?

And where if any is the line between a huge player making a big move into or out of a position (which will surely affect the price) and them falsely manipulating the market?

Any specific examples would be welcomed.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
At what point do these guys, with their 10's of billions in the market cease "trading on" the market and become the market themselves?

And where if any is the line between a huge player making a big move into or out of a position (which will surely affect the price) and them falsely manipulating the market?

Any specific examples would be welcomed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its all relative to the market they're trading on, its volume, and what attributes surround it. So there's no real answer to your question.

[Scorpion Man]

[ QUOTE ]
SM,

I have no idea about this article, but when publications like Forbes/Fortune do net worth calculations, they take into account the value of equity in private companies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 98% sure they don't cap up the future cash flows for private equity and hedge funds. They are giving current net worths (i.e. cash).

[DcifrThs]

the only one there that i'm shocked about is Renaissance.

they charge like 4/40. and based on historical returns, they seem to earn it. their information ratio is like 3.0. sick. and they have > 20bil under management. so i would think he would be worth somewhere near the guy who owns our fund.

however, i dont know how much of that company ( or the companies ) are retained by one guy. and whether they have income coming in from areas of asset management.

i can say based on that it is still very reasonable for him to be worth 10bil and still shocking if he is worth less than 7. i'm lazy and don't want to do a back of the envelope calculation. especially b/c the 20bil claim WASNT the main point of my post. BUT, taking the 4bil/24bil ratio, i get that he would be worth >5.5bil just on that alone + we manage another 140bil in assets for long only portfolios and have been doing that since 1996 (although obviously in 1996 we had fewer AUM).

DAMN YOU DIABLO for off-tracking me!!

again, point=luck>skill for top traders.

so lets hear testimonials about people who were way up there who fell!

Barron

[owsley]

is it just me or does this site seem kind of FOS? its one big rah rah baller gossip list, their "estimates" of 1-1.5 billion come from something reliable or not?

[thatpfunk]

how do you get up for work if you have 1B+ net worth? i dont understand this world at all.

[owsley]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you get up for work if you have 1B+ net worth? i dont understand this world at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you stay in the house doing nothing all day if your job is flying a helicopter to the building you own with the people who work for you and going and running [censored]?