Marriage without children?....And divorce

[nsdjoe]

FWIW my parents divorced when I was 4, and the concept of marriage terrifies me (I'm now 25).

I feel I'm normal in other respects, however.

[Fast Food Knight]

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FWIW my parents divorced when I was 4, and the concept of marriage terrifies me (I'm now 25).

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I feel I'm normal in other respects, however.

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I don't know... I feel like that IS normal. Does anyone disagree?

[nsdjoe]

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I don't know... I feel like that IS normal. Does anyone disagree?

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With the rate friends and colleagues are getting married... it's either not normal, or people are getting married whilst being terrified.

[Blarg]

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You have to throw an expensive event which will leave you in debt for years unless you already have a sweet gig.

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Says who? YOU don't make your own decisions?


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My folks have been married for over 30 years and they just got it done in front of a judge in less than half an hour. There was no rush, they could afford better. It just seemed like a better idea to keep it easy and modest. If people can easily afford a fancy wedding, that's one thing, but it looks like they've become the norm rather than the exception. Super bad societal trend that is very financially damaging.

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No matter how sure you are that you love eachother there's still a very good chance that divorce will happen and marriage will screw you out of a lot of money.

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So, because something "bad" might happen, you won't do something you might think is "good"


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That's how life is done. People make choices. Your objection is weird. If jumping off a bridge was fun, just because something "bad" might happen, you wouldn't do something "fun"?


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I'd actually like to continue having sex, which the majority of my friends have said has gone down the drain after marriage.

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Then it sounds as if their relationship needs work, right? How does marriage have anything to do with that?


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Human nature. Agreed that a relationship might need work, but we might as well admit we are working against the current here. A lot about marriage is like that, but this is probably one of those things that is the most clearly biological. Even people who love each other and get along great can get tired of each other after a while. It doesn't have to be intentional or the result of ill will.

Also, having kids is a pretty severe difference in a relationship. Roles change, as well as bodies. Men sometimes have a harder time wanting to screw a "mommy" than a wife, because the roles are so different, and one of them is asexual at the very best. Women sometimes get into the role of mommy much more than they ever were into the role of wife, and some stay that way for the rest of the relationship. There are a lot of psychological adjustments both partners have to go through. And there's not as much time or freedom to keep things romantic anymore, or even sleep to refresh yourself. It's pretty natural that a couple's sex life could be derailed for quite a while after childbirth and have a hard time coming back to what they used to consider normal.


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What we really need is a comparison of sex in marriage vs. sex in long-term relationships... for older people (as in, above 25+). Otherwise, you're probably talking apples/oranges

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People shouldn't have to give reasons why they shouldn't get married, it's the other way around.

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Why? Because marriage is not something you're supposed to "want" to do? You have to be forced to do it?

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No, you are not being fair at all with some of your responses, and I think if you stepped back and looked at them again, you wouldn't respond like that.

It's because marriage is, of course, a huge commitment, even one intended to be lifelong, and can affect not just the parties but can result in children who can also be affected by how smart a decision it was between two particular people to undertake marriage. You should always have very well-considered reasons to do something of anything near that kind of importance.

[Blarg]

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marriage - a life long commitment to another person

Besides tax and legal stuff, is there any reason to get married if you aren't going to have the children?

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I am firmly in the "no" camp. I see absolutely no reason to be married w/o children.

We had this discussion awhile back in different thread, and Blarg and one or two others blasted me when I made the following obvservations:

*The ultimate purpose of marriage is to start a family
*Marriage without kids offers nothing more than remaining single
*If my wife had told me before being married that she didn't want kids -- we would not be married
*If either of us, after marriage, had been shown to be infertile, it woud be 3:1 against that we would still be married (needs much more elaboration)
*If the unimaginable, unthinkable tragedy happened and my two teenage children died tomorrow -- it would be 50/50 that we would be together 10 years from now (needs much more elaboration)
*I adore my wife
*I did not "have" to get married
*I am a realist

I have been married 23 years.

I would be interested to see if Blarg and others still have issue with any of my points.

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Yes. To keep it short, I find it somewhat horrifying that you would have no interest in being with your wife if you or she were infertile. This is what is implied, anyway. But that could mean it's only the wife who is willing to do the dumping. Either way, it strikes me as really sad. I don't mean that as a snarky chop, I mean literally. I couldn't imagine being married to someone I'd leave if one or the other of us were infertile. I realize there are varying definitions of love, but that one sounds cold as hell.

[Blarg]

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FWIW my parents divorced when I was 4, and the concept of marriage terrifies me (I'm now 25).

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I feel I'm normal in other respects, however.

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I don't know... I feel like that IS normal. Does anyone disagree?

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Agreed. Being a little scared of a gigantic life change that you actually HOPE is going to be permanent seems healthy enough to me, and even helpful in keeping your arse out of fires.

[RoundGuy]

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I realize there are varying definitions of love, but that one sounds cold as hell.

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No, not at all. We love each other deeply. But the fact is, we have very dissimilar interests in our lives other than our kids. That's why I broke it down into odds and numbers ('cause as a poker player and accountant IRL, that's kinda what I do).

Pre-marriage, zero chance without kids. We just didn't have enough in common at the time, and puppy-love wasn't going to cut it.

Shortly after marriage, 3:1. We may have realized that without kids, our love for each other only wasn't going to be enough to keep the marriage alive.

After a tragedy, 50/50. After 23 years, we have grown so much in love that it may be enough, but our interests are so diverse that, maybe not.

Currently, I give it 99:1. We are deeply in love, we have children, and we expect future grandchildren. These things will be enough to overcome our differing interests in other areas of life. Not to mention that my wife is a hot, 43-year old that can still fit into my 16-year old daughter's clothes.... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Nothing cold at all (other than trying to put numbers to an emotion like love), I'm just being realistic with the facts and circumstances.

[Blarg]

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Nothing cold at all (other than trying to put numbers to an emotion like love), I'm just being realistic with the facts and circumstances.

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You can be quite realistic and still be very cold. It seems to me that's happening here. But there's also something about you that I don't understand. And it seems so alien to me that it's hard to discuss without my coming off negatively. It's just that I don't understand though, and am trying to figure out some way to openly discuss our disagreement without sounding like a jerk. It's hard though and I probably won't be too successful at it. My apologies, if so.

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Pre-marriage, zero chance without kids. We just didn't have enough in common at the time, and puppy-love wasn't going to cut it.


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Why would you even dream about getting married then? Oh wait a minute -- maybe I'm just being obtuse, but you're certainly not being forthcoming about what got you together. Is it that someone got pregnant and you auto-married?

[RoundGuy]

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But there's also something about you that I don't understand. And it seems so alien to me that it's hard to discuss without my coming off negatively. It's just that I don't understand though, and am trying to figure out some way to openly discuss our disagreement without sounding like a jerk.

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I think it's that I'm trying to put something as subjective as love and marriage into objective terms. I'm trying to analyze and explain an emotion with logic and reason. This is, on it's face, a contradiction. It's not an easy thing to do, and I can see where it looks "cold".

Not to mention that this is a message board, and you can see words only. You can't see my wife and I together, you can't hear my tone, or see my expressions. This type of discussion is difficult to have under these conditions.

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Pre-marriage, zero chance without kids. We just didn't have enough in common at the time, and puppy-love wasn't going to cut it.


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Why would you even dream about getting married then?

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We wanted to start a family. We dated for four years. The fruits of true love were in place, we enjoyed each others company, and we knew that kids were an intregal part of the picture. My wife was not pregnant when we married. Our first child came 4 years later.

I don't get what you're not understanding here. Feel free to ask more questions. I respect your views and opinions, and I am not averse to the idea that my thinking is questionable. Enlighten me. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Lottery Larry]

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Why would you even dream about getting married then?

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We wanted to start a family. We dated for four years. The fruits of true love were in place, we enjoyed each others company, and we knew that kids were an intregal part of the picture. My wife was not pregnant when we married. Our first child came 4 years later.

I don't get what you're not understanding here. Feel free to ask more questions. I respect your views and opinions, and I am not averse to the idea that my thinking is questionable. Enlighten me. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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I was with Blarg here- I figured I had to be misinterpreting what you were trying to say, because of the medium, because it came across as very cold.

But, your followup here translates, to me, as the following:

- I wouldn't have married my wife, except she and I wanted kids and it was convenient to get married to do so.

- I wouldn't get married at all, if I wasn't continuing my biological line

- If, for some reason, my biological line couldn't be consummated in this marriage, I'd most likely divorce my wife (adoption, other options are not options)

- If my kids would die, I would just as likely get divorced as not...meaning, my relationship with my wife over 23 years isn't keeping us together. Without kids, I'd probably move on.


You're not a Vulcan, are you? :P

Props to you for being honest and open on this board... I'm just a little confused/stunned about your evaluation.

not saying that you are unique or anything, just that few people are willing to put this so baldly... usually I'm the one getting grief for that