HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage

[mperich]

lol. why is everyone saying the only reason to bet this rvr is to induce a bluff cr. i think there is value in the river bet..and i also think almost noone is betting here specifically to induce a river cr bluff since at 10/20 the riv action after a bet will be a cr bluff about 3% of the time.

Anyways as played..its tough and i agree with whoever said if you call you should prolly be calling with jt or 97 even etc.

-Mike

[luckychewy]

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lol. why is everyone saying the only reason to bet this rvr is to induce a bluff cr. i think there is value in the river bet..and i also think almost noone is betting here specifically to induce a river cr bluff since at 10/20 the riv action after a bet will be a cr bluff about 3% of the time.

Anyways as played..its tough and i agree with whoever said if you call you should prolly be calling with jt or 97 even etc.

-Mike

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i disagree completely. first of all, it isn't a random 10/20 opponent, it's duck. secondly, there are definitely spots imo where a river bet has very little value besides inducing a bluff, then you suggest a c/r here will be a bluff a very minuscule amount of the time which i think is off by a lot. and lastly, you say there is value in a bet but then you say that if are calling w/ top pair here you should also be calling w/ middle and bottom pairs. this i agree with a little more because it's rare to see her turn up a weak king or a strong jack etc for value, and it's definitely a spot where her range is likely to be polarized, though not by a ton. i suppose if your read is a bluff will be super rare and she can payoff w/ worse stuff that a bet/fold is okay, as is a check behind.

and yea, a river bet can be for value other than calling a c/r where you feel she can call w/ worse hands...but how many worse hands is she realistically going to have given action that payoff? i mean i know she's more aggressive than the average player but she's definitely thinking about stuff and reading hands etc. is she really going to c/r turn w/ like 66 then c/c river? i mean i suppose it's possible but u guys need some serious meta or whatever going on for something like that to occur imo.

all in all i think there is some value in a river bet(not much) besides inducing the c/r, though based on previous hands you have seen her play or whatever this could definitely change my view on the situation(ie you have seen her play aj or something in this manner on the turn for value, which she could urn into a bluff on the river).

[g-p]

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lol. why is everyone saying the only reason to bet this rvr is to induce a bluff cr. i think there is value in the river bet..and i also think almost noone is betting here specifically to induce a river cr bluff since at 10/20 the riv action after a bet will be a cr bluff about 3% of the time.

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i agree, thought everyone was going crazy when all saying they hate the bet for value. she can definitely call with worse given flop and weird turn action.

[g-p]

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i disagree completely.

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all in all i think there is some value in a river bet

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ah gotcha

[luegofuego]

i would call because its vanessa

[Christophers]

I don't see how people are even thinking of bet/folding the river when she really never has a check/calling hand in this spot. But check the river yourself, obv.

[Phresh]

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i agree, thought everyone was going crazy when all saying they hate the bet for value. she can definitely call with worse given flop and weird turn action.

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Agree. Why can't she put Hero on one of the many busted draws and pick off a bluff?

[greg nice]

i was not trying to induce the c/r. it totally caught me off guard

the river bet was for value. like i said in earlier post, yes its thin, and i did think a while before making it (timing tell also that she could read that im bluffing?), but my line surely doesnt look like im as strong as a king. she should be able to c/c to pick off a bluff.

since my line is so weak/drawy, i figured that she must be thinking that she wont make any more money on her hand by bombing blank river and will try to induce a bluff or thin bet by me and then c/r me. combined with her chat while i was thinking, i mucked.

after the match we talked about hands and i think she said she had K9. but i have no way of knowing obv [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mperich]

ok im on 3 hrs sleep here but ill try to form a post here.

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there are definitely spots imo where a river bet has very little value besides inducing a bluff,

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agree. altho i think the value comes from when we can more accurately put villain on a range..therefore we can make a correct decision vs a cr. in this hand we have no idea what duck has so we are way more likely to make a mistake than she is if she pushes, and i dont think theres value in that unless shes a mindless aggro (obv not)

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then you suggest a c/r here will be a bluff a very minuscule amount of the time which i think is off by a lot.

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this isnt what i meant. what i meant is that after the river goes "check, bet" in this situation, a 10/20 player will be cr bluffing about 3% of the time. (As opposed to chk/b/f, c/b/c, c/b/cr for value. Also I understand its duck and shes super aggro i guess altho I havent played with her that i know of. so maybe 5%) Therefore ppl saying I hate this river bet except to induce a river cr, or i like this play..to induce a river crai are making a comment that doesnt make sense, and especially doesnt make sense in the 10 second thinking window during the hand. I think a better argument from the people who hate the bet would be "I hate the bet because she is almost never calling with a worse hand, and we hate a cr cuz it puts us in a rly tough spot with a v. marginal hand". A better argument for people who like the river bet would be "I like a bet because Duck almost never checks a hand that we beat on the river here, so who cares what she has. We might as well bet and get a freeroll on a loose call cuz of the weird lines in the hand. Also, if we do get crd we can reevaluate."

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is she really going to c/r turn w/ like 66 then c/c river? i mean i suppose it's possible but u guys need some serious meta or whatever going on for something like that to occur imo.

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seems there would have to be some serious meta going on here anyways, since villain knows duck, and the hand played out like THIS.

-Mike

[Phresh]

Girl is sick.