Interesting religious occurrence today, thoughts?

[SitNHit]

If you search, ponder and pray about the teachings of the bible and you believe them then yes. I think if you read the Koran, you will see it's not the same thing or spiritual message. I feel a real special feeling when I read the Bible or BOM or D&C and I choose to believe that feeling is telling me it's true, its not a random feeling, its one that is distinguisable.

Ive studied the beliefs of the Johova's Witness, Islam, Catholics, Christians, Restored Gosepl through Joseph Smith, a little into buddism.. I guess the only major ones I have not are hinduism, chinese traditional, then there are a alot of others but I didn't need to go on cause I knew when I found the truth. Albeit, I was raised as one thing while studying and searching but what I was raised wasn't yet true in my heart, was just something like most others just go along with it.

I feel that I can speak as someone who just isn't ignorant of all other possiblities but I also will not be someone who denies what they know to be true, what would be the point of going outside and living if you denied your strongest feelings you ever had for something(the bible), etc and these are not weak feelings like drugs or alchohol, one who relates those two is obviously ignorant.

Take Care.

[madnak]

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I find it to be pure ignorance to think that you feel feelings only cause of brain/body and that you don't think even if there even is a God he wouldn't guide us through feeling. I think that's a very ignorant position.

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I agree. It's pretty obvious - over 95% of neurophysiologists agree with you.

(He really is getting better - he doesn't know what "ignorant" means because in Utah it's used like "dumb" rather than the actual definition of "lacking education or information," but he really seems to be working on his spelling and grammar.)

[SitNHit]

I think ignorant means not willing to look outside the first idea that was presnted to you just cause your comfortable with what that first thing was.

When you say education, I guess everybody is ignorant in many aspects, same with information.

Isn't there a common ground of education and information though, basically that common ground it what is available to you. For example, we have schience, math, the universe and many religions all in front of you, that is something everybody can embrace and most of us grasp to one.

Now I feel science and math fanaticals kind of view there way as most christians. They kind are going with whats in front of them but don't have that strong feeling that anything is truly right.

I think not liking black people cause they are black is ignorant cause why not try. I think not believing in God cause there is no proof is ignorant cause why not try.

Havent all inventors and philosophers in history made their discoveries/breakthroughs/opinions/beliefs through trial and error? Not just one trial and then never trying again?

[SitNHit]

sry, wanted to add something but quoted.

[madnak]

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I think ignorant means not willing to look outside the first idea that was presnted to you just cause your comfortable with what that first thing was.

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One problem is that what a word means doesn't depend on what you think.

But the bigger problem is that your statement truly is ignorant. Most of the atheists here have been religious at some point during our lives, some of us during our adult lives. We also typically have read at least a reasonable amount of material about religious philosophy and religious practices. Therefore, calling us ignorant of religion (in any sense) is going a bit far.

The further irony is that it's clear you are a perpetrator of the very crime you're accusing us of. I think not believing in Buddhism because you've never studied it is "ignernt," - why not try. See, you've experienced just one thing - Mormonism. And you're here claiming to know more than I do about the subject of religion and God. I've experienced Mormonism, non-denominational Christianity, new-age mysticism, Buddhism, atheism, and agnosticism. My father is a Mormon scholar and Bishop, and I spent much of my childhood discussing these very questions with him (as well as various other bishops and even a stake president).

But you're telling me I'm foolish because I'm unwilling to try new things. Hey, if you do half of what I've done in your explorations, and try half as many things, then I will literally commit to going to church and paying tithes consistently, and I will even fast and give testimony every month as an attempt to "fake it until I make it" for an entire year. Finally, I will read at least 10 pages from the Book of Mormon every night for the entire year, and be sure to complete the entire thing (including the D&C, Pearl of Great Price, and other documents) at least twice in that time. Also I'll pray every night and morning, and put effort into really reaching out, and pray at each meal (but without so much effort).

Considering that I did similar things back when I was Mormon, for oh...fourteen years...I'm pretty confident that at the end, when I go back and evaluate my beliefs, I will decide to remain as I am (more or less). But I'll go through it and even keep you updated with documentation of it, including a "report card" from my Bishop - just as long as you practice Buddhism for one year with the same rigor, read the works of Thich Nhat Han and the Dalai Lama, meditate for one hour daily, etc. And at the end, if you keep up your side, I'll lay you even odds that you'll have a different perspective on Buddhism, and a different perspective on Mormonism (not that your beliefs will necessarily change, but that you'll gain valuable insights from the Buddhist teachings).

[SitNHit]

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I think ignorant means not willing to look outside the first idea that was presnted to you just cause your comfortable with what that first thing was.

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One problem is that what a word means doesn't depend on what you think.

But the bigger problem is that your statement truly is ignorant. Most of the atheists here have been religious at some point during our lives, some of us during our adult lives. We also typically have read at least a reasonable amount of material about religious philosophy and religious practices. Therefore, calling us ignorant of religion (in any sense) is going a bit far.

The further irony is that it's clear you are a perpetrator of the very crime you're accusing us of. I think not believing in Buddhism because you've never studied it is "ignernt," - why not try. See, you've experienced just one thing - Mormonism. And you're here claiming to know more than I do about the subject of religion and God. I've experienced Mormonism, non-denominational Christianity, new-age mysticism, Buddhism, atheism, and agnosticism. My father is a Mormon scholar and Bishop, and I spent much of my childhood discussing these very questions with him (as well as various other bishops and even a stake president).

But you're telling me I'm foolish because I'm unwilling to try new things. Hey, if you do half of what I've done in your explorations, and try half as many things, then I will literally commit to going to church and paying tithes consistently, and I will even fast and give testimony every month as an attempt to "fake it until I make it" for an entire year. Finally, I will read at least 10 pages from the Book of Mormon every night for the entire year, and be sure to complete the entire thing (including the D&C, Pearl of Great Price, and other documents) at least twice in that time. Also I'll pray every night and morning, and put effort into really reaching out, and pray at each meal (but without so much effort).

Considering that I did similar things back when I was Mormon, for oh...fourteen years...I'm pretty confident that at the end, when I go back and evaluate my beliefs, I will decide to remain as I am (more or less). But I'll go through it and even keep you updated with documentation of it, including a "report card" from my Bishop - just as long as you practice Buddhism for one year with the same rigor, read the works of Thich Nhat Han and the Dalai Lama, meditate for one hour daily, etc. And at the end, if you keep up your side, I'll lay you even odds that you'll have a different perspective on Buddhism, and a different perspective on Mormonism (not that your beliefs will necessarily change, but that you'll gain valuable insights from the Buddhist teachings).

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I apologize if you got that from what I said, lol....

Can it be safe to assume that we state things in majorities, specially matters of most opinion.

I agree, there is something in buddism that I could most likely apply to my life and it would be beneficial, that is a very smart statement. It would be hard though so to into that whole idea of belief and disregard what I already believe. Remember I don't think most truly believe, I think to most it's just a saying. Kind of like when someone says they are smart, most are not smart, and why is that, cause truly smart people know what smart is, those who are not have an idea of what it is and it makes them feel good so say it.

Well, if someone truly thinks they know something to be truthful. I won't say they should not believe it. I have to resepct their belief and wish them the best.

Before venturting into these forums, I make it a policy of mine to not discuss my beliefs unless that person would like to hear them, either in a form of teaching or just discussion.

I have a question, and it's not to like look down on you, just pure curiousity. Why did you leave the church? Were you ex-communicated? And this isn't stating something as fact just an observation of opinion, you believed in the Devil I assume when you were in the church, but once you left you don't believe he exist? I am sure you get where I am going with that. I think the enemies best shot to win a war is to attack them when they think they are not being attacked and when they accomplish there goal make it seem like there is no enemy in the first place.

Anyways just curious.

[SitNHit]

Something to add. If you did anything for year, it would obv change you in some ways. If I for one year straight and truly studied satanic material and did everything and applied everything it said, I think I could be changed. The point is not to make those choices that put you in danger, not saying that buddism will, but I don't feel I need it, most don't have my comfort and strong beliefs and with that I feel that I can move on and live life with the benefit of knowing what I know.

I think people do things in goals of experience or in search of truth. How you approach things determines most likely what you get out of them.

I think your a part of a certain group, a person who has been everything, I don't know the answers as to why you believe or choose what you do or have done what you done.

All I can say is my feeling is real and with it comes a view on things that you don't have.

All I can do is love one another and hope that they have as much happiness as possible, and if they want to hear what believe, well I can show them where to start.

[Taraz]

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If you search, ponder and pray about the teachings of the bible and you believe them then yes. I think if you read the Koran, you will see it's not the same thing or spiritual message. I feel a real special feeling when I read the Bible or BOM or D&C and I choose to believe that feeling is telling me it's true, its not a random feeling, its one that is distinguisable.


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What I don't understand is why you think that since you get that "real special feeling" only from the Bible, BOM, and D&C that those are the only ways that anybody else can get those feelings. Why can it not be the case that a Muslim gets the same feeling you feel from the Koran and not the Bible? I'm sure that they would describe the feeling they get the same way you describe the spirituality you get from your faith.

I've come to a realization very recently that everyone gets these "special feelings" from vastly different things. We use religion/spirituality/etc to describe this feeling. It seems arrogant to claim that since you get it from one thing that that is the only way for anyone to get it.

[tame_deuces]

The 'probability for miracles' is a fairly common argument amongst atheists such a myself. It's really just saying that sometimes, something spectacular will happen.

And we're all pokerplayers here, we should know by now not to take patterns we see 'for granted', but acknowledge the probability that they are random occurences.

If a religious believer choses to do otherwise I can't say he is wrong, but I can say he doesn't have a strong case either.

[vhawk01]

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Something to add. If you did anything for year, it would obv change you in some ways. If I for one year straight and truly studied satanic material and did everything and applied everything it said, I think I could be changed. The point is not to make those choices that put you in danger, not saying that buddism will, but I don't feel I need it, most don't have my comfort and strong beliefs and with that I feel that I can move on and live life with the benefit of knowing what I know.

I think people do things in goals of experience or in search of truth. How you approach things determines most likely what you get out of them.

I think your a part of a certain group, a person who has been everything, I don't know the answers as to why you believe or choose what you do or have done what you done.

All I can say is my feeling is real and with it comes a view on things that you don't have.

All I can do is love one another and hope that they have as much happiness as possible, and if they want to hear what believe, well I can show them where to start.

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This is a fantastic example of the anti-extinction mechanisms built into religious memes.