Psychoactive drugs - whats your position on them?

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]

Regarding the evidence, if you can't see it from studies in the link I gave, I guess I'll have to explicitly write out my case. To me, after reviewing those studies, the evidence is very clear that marijuana is having a significant effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

But, as I mentioned earlier, it seems like no causal link has been shown. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but it's just a suggestion at this point.

Does self-medication not seem like a plausible explanation to you? It seems like the most probable reason to me considering that the incidence of schizophrenia and psychotic disorders in the population did not change during the 60s and 70s when pot use became more widespread.

[Taraz]

I found a good article that talks about the lack of a causal link between marijuana and psychosis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Abstract

[Sun Wukong]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you've got it backwards Phil, amphetamine and its derivatives, including MDMA, are the ones that are terrible for your brain.
Pot is pretty much harmless in comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if someone's already said this but pot (especially the stronger varieties) can be quite harmful (maybe too strong a word..).
I have been smoking it for years (I'm 22 now) and whilst I was smoking it heavy I noticed a difference in my general motivation.
I'm not saying it's all bad and I won't stop but IMO heavy use (like an 1/8+ a day) turns you into a zombie.
People I've know since school have basically turned into hermits when I remember them as outgoing socialable people.
Personally I think anything in moderation is ok but once it (whatever it is) becomes a way to deal with life there's a problem.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it's all bad and I won't stop but IMO heavy use (like an 1/8+ a day) turns you into a zombie.
People I've know since school have basically turned into hermits when I remember them as outgoing socialable people.
Personally I think anything in moderation is ok but once it (whatever it is) becomes a way to deal with life there's a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
What? You've completely misunderstood the dialog here. Go back and reread. I said I read that a THC like compound was produced by these parasites. Above I admit my mistake and show the source where I got the idea from.

[/ QUOTE ]

But clearly you're still getting your ideas from non-peer reviewed sites or sites about peer reviewed journals where you can't actually look at the study. You just hear what the researchers tell you. They don't talk about confounds, correlation-causation problems,sample size, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
They're solid studies from what I've read.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what about the literature and scientists with the opposing view? Also, I don't know your background. What makes you think you're able to sift through the mountain of papers on this and come up with this conclusion when the three people with training in neuroscience here (me, Taraz, and Aviva Simplex - Aviva please correct me if I'm wrong) take opposing views. This is like your race-based views of the brain and intelligence. It's like you started reading psychology and neuroscience in 1910 and stopped in 1950.

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You're really being an idiot here. I'm responding the m_theory's comments, who thinks I didn't realize that amphetamines are stimulants. I'm not talking about how they work in the brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does you saying they are stimulants not relate to how they work in the brain?

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I'm talking about noticable negative effects. For example, alcohol a is neurotoxin, even in "safe" amounts, but you won't notice it in people who have a wine now and then. I'm not debating whether it's neurotoxic or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what are you debating? For most people, alcohol is not directly neurotoxic in non-ridiculous levels. And in chronic alcoholics it's pretty much the associated thiamine deficiancy that causes the brain damage resulting in Korsakoff's syndrome.
Schmued's and others' papers say that amphetamine derivatives are directly neurotoxic in single doses.

[ QUOTE ]
And I was referring to mental health services; you know, the people who deal with this illness in the real world.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I was referring to the people that actually use the scientific method to weed out the confounds,etc. - not anecdotes from a few dozen patients.

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The hilarity of scientists claiming they know something isn't harmful without comprehensive knowledge of the biology in question, or comprehensive studies showing nil effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still on the fence on this one but recent evidence suggests that there were problems in the data that informed the ban and that DDT may not be what we think it is. Mosquito-borne diseases kill a ridiculous amount of people each year and there's a push to get more DDT sprayed. Even the WHO is on board.
I still can't break away since when I started biology we got Silent Spring hammered into us but I sway back and forth.

Also, I can't figure you out. One second you're saying "Oh scientists think they know it all but they don't - stupid smug bastards" and the next you're "Here's what some scientists say and that proves my point"

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you've got it backwards Phil, amphetamine and its derivatives, including MDMA, are the ones that are terrible for your brain.
Pot is pretty much harmless in comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if someone's already said this but pot (especially the stronger varieties) can be quite harmful (maybe too strong a word..).
I have been smoking it for years (I'm 22 now) and whilst I was smoking it heavy I noticed a difference in my general motivation.
I'm not saying it's all bad and I won't stop but IMO heavy use (like an 1/8+ a day) turns you into a zombie.
People I've know since school have basically turned into hermits when I remember them as outgoing socialable people.
Personally I think anything in moderation is ok but once it (whatever it is) becomes a way to deal with life there's a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, we are talking about long-term effects here. The overwhelming majority of people that smoke marijuana don't show long-term deficits after not smoking for a while. As I said before, people confuse short term effects and effects due to 1/2 life of it in your body with long term, irreversible effects.

[MaxWeiss]

As long as you are aware of the risks and don't put others in harm's way, I'm not against them. HOWEVER, I consider "harm's way" to include psychological damage of close friends and family caused by addiction and the changes of the person. I am against hard drugs specifically because they have a high addiction factor and also do more immediate physical damage. But if people want to get high on pot and drink, whatever.

I'm also good with taking specific mind altering drugs for benefit, like anti-depressants for example. Some people's brains are wired WRONG as a birth defect and their brain chemistry DOES need to be altered. I'm not for doing it when it doesn't need it though.

[Mr. Now]

Yes.

Drugs in Human Prehistory

[Bill Haywood]

My position?

The shortage must be ended.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
Recent research has firmed up the connection between marijuana and mental illness and it now seems likely that there is causation;

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the causation is the people with mental problems are a lot more likely to do drugs. No surprise there!

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I really think you're kidding yourself if you deny that personality change happens in a lot of potheads.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've known a lot of people who became potheads and none where anything like this happened. I will concede though, that my friends are well above average intelligence, so possibly more able to resist such sideeffects. Of course, I've never seen any real scientific evidence that makes this possibility seem likely either.