|
|
#42
03-15-2007, 08:40 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
How is folding -EV?
Assuming I'm always 50/50 to win the hand (we're not taking hands, opponents, styles, board, etc into account), it'd be a mistake to give up the 50% share of the pot on the flop. I'm pretty sure I'm way off in the way I'm approaching this. 
|
|
#43
03-15-2007, 09:07 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
This thread is plain retarded without some further clarifications.
- Is villain always donking into us everytime we raise? - Does villain realize that we have to do one thing or the other every time? Yah, I raise donkbets for value and as a bluff, and I hear what people are saying - but realize this isn't a river block and this isn't a minbet. Assuming the above aren't the case, most of the time the villain will just check/fold the flop. Maybe he'll call flop once and then fold turn. It's not like we can't win pots and play normal poker. The rare times he donks out 1/2 pot (after limp/calling UTG pre), he very likely has something. The majority of the time (assuming normal loose raising standards), we have nothing - and being forced to raise everytime when we *know* villain is ahead of us sucks. Grunch - please clarify the two above points.
|
|
#44
03-15-2007, 09:31 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
[ QUOTE ]
How is folding -EV? Assuming I'm always 50/50 to win the hand (we're not taking hands, opponents, styles, board, etc into account), it'd be a mistake to give up the 50% share of the pot on the flop. I'm pretty sure I'm way off in the way I'm approaching this. [/ QUOTE ] were not always 50/50 to win the hand. that would make this too easy. it all comes down to our opponents betting frequency. how often he bets 1/2 pot is the most important factor (since we disregard flop texture, stacks, etc).
|
|
#45
03-15-2007, 10:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How is folding -EV? Assuming I'm always 50/50 to win the hand (we're not taking hands, opponents, styles, board, etc into account), it'd be a mistake to give up the 50% share of the pot on the flop. I'm pretty sure I'm way off in the way I'm approaching this. [/ QUOTE ] were not always 50/50 to win the hand. that would make this too easy. it all comes down to our opponents betting frequency. how often he bets 1/2 pot is the most important factor (since we disregard flop texture, stacks, etc). [/ QUOTE ] Of course it depends on the villain's tendencies, but I haven't been given anything on that matter other than villain will limp/call adn donkbet at times. We've been instructed to disregard any details, so that's why 50/50 is my best guess.
|
|
#46
03-15-2007, 10:22 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
Any strategy that has you doing the same thing everytime you are donked into is highly exploitable by any opponent that is paying attention (there are some of these people out there). Some sort of mixed strategy (folding sometimes, raising sometimes, and calling sometimes) is clearly optimal in this case. People donk with air, with medoicre hands, and with the near nuts. Lucky
|
|
#47
03-15-2007, 10:45 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
If I had to choose 100 % of one or the other, with no exemptions, I'd prefer to always raise. Assuming I was playing in a game where players had at least some memory, I might also choose to *slightly* tighten up my preflop raising standards so that I didn't find myself raising junk as often on the flop.
|
|
#48
03-15-2007, 10:52 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
Grunch,
Everyone is getting a bit off track here, I believe. It is VERY obvious that doing any action 100% is going to be sub-optimal. It is also obvious that if we had to make a decision to do something 100% of the time, we would need more information (villain's tendancies, our opening range, stack sizes, etc). I don't think that your point is to dive into all of this. My guess is that you have thought about this particular set of circumstances and have an example that may add some clarity to the play in general. I would just like to see what you have in store for us before this goes too far off track. All that said, I raise more often than I fold here, so I am supposed to say raise. Please tell me why its wrong! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] <3 Grunch theory posts
|
|
#49
03-15-2007, 10:55 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
This is too oversimplified. However I would always raise.
What if there was an option c) call? If we always had to take the same action I'd much prefer to play out the turn and river with position than I would always raise or fold.
|
|
#50
03-15-2007, 11:05 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
Lol - I read this post yesterday, have been thinking about it all day and OP still hasbt divulged his mysterious thoughts....
That said I still cannot see how, if we have to do something every single time, there is any other option apart from raise as it is the onyl way we ever win the pot. Is this question to be viewed in a vacuum??? I.e entirely theoretical... i.e Donk is just a "poker player" without any kind of raiting (nit, tag, lag blah blah) - thats how I viewed it, but something still tells me the answer is some how fold, which is annoying because it means im too stupid to work it out.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
