Super Tues AK v. Premier

[stealthmunk]

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I don't think I shove but raising to 3k is standard. Once you get to the flop you need to check behind because premier has such a tight range for calling out of position vs a utg 2.5x raise . He;s getting like 4:1 to call because your raise is so small he's probably calling like 3-4%

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FYP

[gobboboy]

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I really dislike shoving preflop

I BET THE FLOP NOW

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[Todd Terry]

I always shove preflop here.

The arguments against it seem to be: (1) we're getting looked up by a lot of pocket pairs because our hand is transparent; and (2) AQ/AJ are more likely to shove over a 3x raise than call a shove. As to (1), given our M and the fact that the blinds are about to hit us, wouldn't we be thrilled to get in a flip to double up? As to (2), I just don't think it's right. I think the range of hands calling a shove is actually wider than the range of hands shoving over a 3x UTG raise due to the popular perception that UTGs with 15x BB are shoving good hands and 3x-ing great hands.

[curtains]

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I think shoving more than 15bbs here is exploitable. Shoving makes my hand pretty transparent.

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No way in [censored] shoving here PF is exploitable. Just shove hands like AK, some QQ, JJ, TT, AQs stuff etc....normal raise monsters(AA,KK, some QQs) and weaker hands. Easy game. Almost impossible for anyone to fight against that strategy, especially since they don't know what you are doing anyway.


Of course normal raise as in the actual hand isn't terrible either..

[tedtodd]

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a lot of you guys have such a hardon to make sure you don't shove PF with 15x stacks that you end up setting yourself up for stupid postflop spots like this

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Exactly. I'm NOT looking to raise 20% of my stack PF, and then play a pot out of position with a hand that hits 1:X (i forget what the odds of hitting one of your 2 cards on flop is)

Better to shove and pick up blinds and antes or get a call from a weaker hand. No need to play this OOP with a semi-short stack.

[stealthmunk]

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I think shoving more than 15bbs here is exploitable. Shoving makes my hand pretty transparent.

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No way in [censored] shoving here PF is exploitable. Just shove hands like AK, some QQ, JJ, TT, AQs stuff etc....normal raise monsters(AA,KK, some QQs) and weaker hands. Easy game. Almost impossible for anyone to fight against that strategy, especially since they don't know what you are doing anyway.


Of course normal raise as in the actual hand isn't terrible either..

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Curtains wins the thread.

[Damon Rutherford]

How come no one has addressed this? I think he makes some good points about limping.

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this hand is obviously above my pay grade, but may i present a contrary pov.

our stack is short, yet still we have re stealing in our holster. 5 of the 6 remaining stacks can be severely damaged by us. that being said:

raising to 3k is problematic as described by the hand itself. you are giving the bb 3-1 to call, and you will whiff the flop 67% of the time and be in a real pickle. if you fold after raising, 2 hands from now your ability to re steal will be marginal, at best.

shoving is clearly ok. since most of the stacks are similar calling ranges of AK's shove should be something like TT+, AK+, AQs+. that's like 4% of hands , so 76% of the time we pick up 2640 uncontested, which is nice.....but is it optimal ??? with M<7 shouldn't we be looking to play a big pot pre flop w/ AK ???

doubling up to 42k gives us the added ability to steal with impunity. what about limping utg ???

if we limp, 2 things can happen. we may get other callers
or we may get raised. if we get a bunch of callers and a multiway pot, we can evaluate the flop and not feel the need to continue if we don't like it. we have saved 10% of our stack this way.

if we get raised or shoved (how many times have you seen a limper get re raised with these stack sizes) we instacall/shove and are happy as a pig in poop
to play for all our chips w/AK.

i know limping is for pansies, but in this case, does it give us the best chance to get what we want ???

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[curtains]

Blinds and antes WAYYY too valuable to us to limp. It's not like they are 5% of our stack, they are almost 1/5th!!! Also we have a hand that will often be nothing on the flop.

[DDBeast]

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I think shoving more than 15bbs here is exploitable. Shoving makes my hand pretty transparent.

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No way in [censored] shoving here PF is exploitable. Just shove hands like AK, some QQ, JJ, TT, AQs stuff etc....normal raise monsters(AA,KK, some QQs) and weaker hands. Easy game. Almost impossible for anyone to fight against that strategy, especially since they don't know what you are doing anyway.


Of course normal raise as in the actual hand isn't terrible either..

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean to say a shove is exploitable, which it's definitely not, rather, I don't think it's most +EV.

Yes, it put me in a crappy spot post flop, but I don't expectto get flat called here with 15bbs.

[curtains]

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I think shoving more than 15bbs here is exploitable. Shoving makes my hand pretty transparent.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way in [censored] shoving here PF is exploitable. Just shove hands like AK, some QQ, JJ, TT, AQs stuff etc....normal raise monsters(AA,KK, some QQs) and weaker hands. Easy game. Almost impossible for anyone to fight against that strategy, especially since they don't know what you are doing anyway.


Of course normal raise as in the actual hand isn't terrible either..

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I didn't mean to say a shove is exploitable, which it's definitely not, rather, I don't think it's most +EV.

Yes, it put me in a crappy spot post flop, but I don't expectto get flat called here with 15bbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I think shoving is the most +EV.