finaltablehelp.com

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
I knew this type of crap has been going on for awhile, they sometimes call it ghosting or whatever. But for you to publicly offer this service is somewhat shocking to me. You are basically saying if Lee allows me to commit this crime, then I will. I hope Lee is not this stupid. I guess it's all about making dollars in the end and who gives a rats ass about integrity. Oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose he could just offer "tutoring" and do it under the table if that's better.

Honestly, I don't want to get involved in some huge controversy over making a few dollars. My decision on whether the db will be involved in this project will rest on a few factors.

1) Stars response.

If they say no, then this is obviously over. If they say yes, then I'll evaluate further.

2) 2+2ers response, with reasoning.

I respect the opinions of many people on here and I'd like to hear what people have to say. However, I also found out during the multi-accounting crisis that a lot of people are irrational, so please keep everything in perspective.

I'm interested in hearing opinions, but please consider these points.

a) Forget about who the helper is. It could be GB2005 (who you may think is a dick or ridiculous) or it could be your best friend. That's not at all relevant here to whether this is okay.

b) Realize and acknowledge that this already happens with people getting paid to help. If explicitly stating it isn't okay, then is it okay to do it under the guise of private tutoring? If not, then how should we go about stopping it other than merely distancing ourselves from it?

Any responses, with reasoning, would be appreciated.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Nat,

I understand you want to do everything by the rules and that's ok.

But in a personal level; do you think these sites are good for online poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really not sure. Initially I thought it was just an upfront offering of what was already going on, so pending site approval, I was willing to let GB2005 try it out. But people have offered a few good lines of thought on why it might not be okay even if it's within the rules. I'd like to continue to read responses in this thread and take opinions as we wait for Stars to respond.

[Ansky]

I'm too lazy to write this stuff up at the moment, but I'll just chime in and say that I think this is wrong.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm too lazy to write this stuff up at the moment, but I'll just chime in and say that I think this is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that isn't what I was looking for, but thanks, lol.

[GB2005**]

Hello Gary,

Due to the nature of your site, we will need a supervisory approval. Your
image has been removed until our supervisor makes a decision about this.

You will be contacted in the next few days. Thank you for your patience.

Regards,

Claudia
PokerStars Support Team


----- Original Message -----
From: DerekJeterSS2@aol.com
Sent: 2006/03/25 15:26:47
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: urgent help needed

>
>I have recently changed my stars avatar to finaltablehelp.com logo,
which is
>a business i started. It can be found on finaltablehelp.com. I do not
want
>to be breaking any rules from your site. From the research I have done,
i
>am pretty sure it would be a legal service to offer. Please let me know
your
>stance as i really respect pokerstars and want to ensure I am following
all
>your rules,
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gary GB2005
>

[Annulus]

I hate online poker and the direction it is headed. I'm starting to feel disgusted by it. No integrity by anyone, no honesty. It's to the point, I really don't even care to keep writing my senators and congress people to stop this bill was being passed. Why should I just so the cheaters can prosper? Sorry, but im in a bad mood and don't even care. and FWIW I'm not just a losing player whos pissed, i make a significant amount of money playeing this game, and I do it without any instant messaging, no databasing, no online ghosts/friend. Sorry, end of rant.

[Ansky]

Annulus,

Did you read the thread? What the hell are you talking about? GB is going through all the normal measures to make sure it is ok, and beleive me Nat is not the type to support something that is outside the legal or ethical boundaries, so just chill out.

[MLG]

ok, so thoughts.

I think ideas like this are very very bad for online poker. I do agree that the idea of one player to a hand is pretty rediculous online...but that doesnt mean any and all collaboration should be allowed. So, where and how do you draw the line? Personally I have no moral problem with an IM that says..."hey, close decision, do you call here?"* while I do have a problem with one that says, "for 10% of my winnings play this out for me."

Is there a solution? I think so. I think that Stars should make providing these kinds of services illegal. Although, its pretty hard to enforce this, its a lot easier to enforce than a rule that disallows talking about your hand, or seeking out these helpers.


To that end Nat, I would hope that you do not support this, even if Stars does not outlaw it. I think there's little doubt its bad for poker. Its bad for good players, and its bad for poker's perception among marginal players.




*Note: I don't talk about in progress hands with friends, nor do I solicit advice on a case by case basis, but I dont really have a large problem with those who do.

[N 82 50 24]

MLG,

Thanks for the response.

I took the site down for the time being while waiting for a stars response.

[GB2005**]

I have not received a response, but the peoples response have helped me make a decision. I have told Nat to take down the website, and there will be nothing further with this. For the record, I never served a client, nor do I condone multiaccounting or any sort of cheating. I am not sure if what i was doing was ethical or not, but i have just decided not to do this. However, I am still curious of stars response cause there are people and businesses doing this today.

Gary