21/17/3.0/22

[lucky_mf]

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- it has been proven (Nash) that at least one optimal(=unexploitable) strategy exists for any n-player game w/ a finite strategy space. This includes NLHE.

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All these game theoretic eq. concepts presume that each player is using a strategy that is optimal against the other players optimal strategies. Seems like a huge stretch even if you could get all players to agree to what the game was (time horizon, ect).

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- strategies in the 18-23/15-20/2-6 range are popular because they provide a very easy framework to robotically exploit the strategies employed by the general opponent in your games, not because they are neccesarily close to an optimal strategy.

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A statistical profile is not a NL Hold'em strategy.

Lucky

[The White Rabbit]

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All these game theoretic eq. concepts presume that each player is using a strategy that is optimal against the other players optimal strategies. Seems like a huge stretch even if you could get all players to agree to what the game was (time horizon, ect).

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Eq. concepts do, optimal play an sich doesn't. In practice it's often usefull to make this assumption in order to make quick (heuristic) progress, but it's by no means neccesary!

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A statistical profile is not a NL Hold'em strategy.

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Very true, but I presume it's obvious to anyone that I'm referring to basic TAG strategies that are generally represented by those numbers.

[KLJ]

i think lucky_mf just wants some love for the other 12/8/2's out there. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

(yes i think raising a lot of hands preflop determines dick size lolololol)

in all seriousness though <3 lucky you were very good when i played with you

[lucky_mf]

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i think lucky_mf just wants some love for the other 12/8/2's out there. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

(yes i think raising a lot of hands preflop determines dick size lolololol)

in all seriousness though <3 lucky you were very good when i played with you

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I don't think we have played together. I have a Stars account with a sn different from my 2p2 name, but only use it for tourney play.

I happen to have a PhD in economics from one of the top programs in the country and am currently a professor of economics. I get slightly annoyed with the game theory and poker discussions because I think game theory cannot be practically applied to poker for reasons I've already listed (hard to define the game, huge strategy space, incomplete information, and the fact that eq. concepts presume all players are playing optimally with respect to each others optimal strategies).

In a hold'em game which consist of just one hand you can think of a strategy is as a contingency of each possible action at a point in the hand given your cards, the actions of the other players, and the board. The strategy space is huge.

There is tremendous variation in the in the strategies used by different players with the same 3 variable statistical profiles when you take post-flop play into account.

Lucky

[The White Rabbit]

Read the Mathematics of poker, you'll be surprised!

[lucky_mf]

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Read the Mathematics of poker, you'll be surprised!

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I suspect I would be unimpressed, but I will take a look at it if I see it in the bookstore.

Lucky

[cbloom]

The interesting thing about thinking about the game theory strategy is this :

Any time somebody plays differently than the optimal strategy, that means they have a leak that can be exploited.

This shows up in stats, because any time someone is doing too much of one thing they are obviously not optimal and can be exploited.

The other thing is if you think about what the optimal strategy must be like it's very well balanced.

So, any time somebody shoves the river and we all say "he must have the nuts here" - that's actually a leak in his game that he's only doing that with the nuts. I'm sure you can think of a ton of lines that people only do with a few hands (eg. not balanced) which is therefore a leak.




Actually something specific I've been noticing recently is there are these guys who are like 22/18 preflop but then very passive postflop. That must be a leak but I haven't quite figured out how to exploit it yet.

[Tickner]

cbloom, thats true, but think about this as well:

Assume player A is only shoving the nuts. Thats a leak in player A's game only if Player B knows hes only shoving with the nuts. If player B will still call with less than the nuts, is it still a leak?

[aditya]

I have one word that will basically disqualify istrongs argument:

____acehole888___

[iSTRONG]

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I have one word that will basically disqualify istrongs argument:

____acehole888___

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