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#41
08-08-2007, 06:58 PM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
Would a Christian claim that he can still get into Heaven if he repents for his murder, rape, incest and suicide in his last moments of life? I doubt it (and if that is the case, why try to live a good life at all day-to-day?). [/ QUOTE ] I call myself a Christian and I think God forgives everyone so yes I think he would reach heaven. Why try to live a good life? The same reason atheists try to live a good life. 
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#42
08-08-2007, 08:39 PM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
Bunny, as you can tell alot of interpretation is needed but every Christian I have ever met agrees on one thing above all else...that without Jesus there is no Christianity. Some may quibble over the nuts & bolts of something but everyone I know believes that the Bible is true & correct...INCLUDING Hell being real. I encourage you to do your own Bible study especially the Hell part, pray about it, & seek the guidance of a clergyman that you respect.
As I said before, your optimism & love-each-other-because-we're-all-going-too-heaven mentality is commendable but please don't let it stand in the way of your spiritual journey.
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#43
08-08-2007, 09:41 PM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
I'm grunching a bit here but has anyone mentioned that Paul addressed this like almost 2,000 years ago.
He basically said that it would be better for him to die, but that would end his ministry and so to put others first he wished to continue to live. Your argument bounces around a lot. It's only your "duty" to kill him if you share his beliefs about heaven at which point you have a higher authority who says don't kill him. And even if you could appeal to selflessness it doesn't work because Paul is not the only non-you person to consider.
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#44
08-08-2007, 10:40 PM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
I'm grunching a bit here but has anyone mentioned that Paul addressed this like almost 2,000 years ago. He basically said that it would be better for him to die, but that would end his ministry and so to put others first he wished to continue to live. Your argument bounces around a lot. It's only your "duty" to kill him if you share his beliefs about heaven at which point you have a higher authority who says don't kill him. And even if you could appeal to selflessness it doesn't work because Paul is not the only non-you person to consider. [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't that make him a marytr for a religion that is in its infancy...at least by infancy today's standards?
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#46
08-09-2007, 02:12 AM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
Bunny, as you can tell alot of interpretation is needed but every Christian I have ever met agrees on one thing above all else...that without Jesus there is no Christianity. Some may quibble over the nuts & bolts of something but everyone I know believes that the Bible is true & correct...INCLUDING Hell being real. I encourage you to do your own Bible study especially the Hell part, pray about it, & seek the guidance of a clergyman that you respect. [/ QUOTE ] I have, in fact, done a fair amount of reading and research and it may surprise you to know just how far apart many of the denominations are (not just on minor issues but on major points of doctrine and views on "what God wants"). Do you think that the fact everyone you have met shares a view implies it must be correct? There are theologians who doubt hell's existence (particularly as a physical lake of fire) and it's not always easy to tell who's right and who's wrong. [ QUOTE ] As I said before, your optimism & love-each-other-because-we're-all-going-too-heaven mentality is commendable but please don't let it stand in the way of your spiritual journey. [/ QUOTE ] I dont think you should regard it as commendable if you think I am perverting or obscuring God's message. Please dont feel obligated to be polite to me, I'm very hard to offend. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Ultimately, my theology is very much about a spiritual journey. I think God cares about the choices we make and the path we choose. I am as nervous of some false belief of mine getting in the way as I am about trusting what I consider to be important questions to a human institution with (in my view) a less than noble history.
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#48
08-09-2007, 02:20 AM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
I'm continually amazed at how you can think the way you do and still be a Christian. A theist, sure. But I don't get a Christian. [/ QUOTE ] Christian is pretty broad (and much less literal outside of the US it seems). I'm not sure if I should abandon it altogether (certainly here it may mislead - several times people have said something about christians and then excepted "people like bunny") but the reason I havent is that I think my beliefs are actually much closer to a large number of christians', they just dont often articulate them or puzzle them through. I think it's important to make the point that christians are almost as varied as atheists are.
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#49
08-09-2007, 09:32 AM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Bunny, as you can tell alot of interpretation is needed but every Christian I have ever met agrees on one thing above all else...that without Jesus there is no Christianity. Some may quibble over the nuts & bolts of something but everyone I know believes that the Bible is true & correct...INCLUDING Hell being real. I encourage you to do your own Bible study especially the Hell part, pray about it, & seek the guidance of a clergyman that you respect. [/ QUOTE ] I have, in fact, done a fair amount of reading and research and it may surprise you to know just how far apart many of the denominations are (not just on minor issues but on major points of doctrine and views on "what God wants"). Do you think that the fact everyone you have met shares a view implies it must be correct? There are theologians who doubt hell's existence (particularly as a physical lake of fire) and it's not always easy to tell who's right and who's wrong. [ QUOTE ] As I said before, your optimism & love-each-other-because-we're-all-going-too-heaven mentality is commendable but please don't let it stand in the way of your spiritual journey. [/ QUOTE ] I dont think you should regard it as commendable if you think I am perverting or obscuring God's message. Please dont feel obligated to be polite to me, I'm very hard to offend. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Ultimately, my theology is very much about a spiritual journey. I think God cares about the choices we make and the path we choose. I am as nervous of some false belief of mine getting in the way as I am about trusting what I consider to be important questions to a human institution with (in my view) a less than noble history. [/ QUOTE ] Ok Bunny, you asked for it. Let me break it down for you. You are correct that there are multiple interpretations/versions of the Bible. You are correct that there are multiple denominations of Christianity. I have already said as much several times. The fact of the matter is this...IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR, YOU WILL DIE AND GO TO HELL. All Christians should agree wholeheartedly on this one point. If the churches from Australia to America to Argentina aren't preaching the Word of God then they are doing a hugh dis-service to the church body. I don't care what book some theologian wrote or how he feels on a particular subject. He is a mortal man & is interpreting the best he can but if he's telling you there ain't no hell (pardon the double negative!!!), he's either an idiot or he's lying to you. Satan has a cunning way of deceiving the human mind. Why are there so many nonbelievers on this forum who are bold enough to say "Yeah, I used to be a Christian but I woke up" "Whew, I'm glad I'm Jesus free woo hoo". I hope they coated those words in butter so they'll be easier to stomach when they have to eat them. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Your "everybody's going to heaven 'cause God loves us" & "I don't believe in Hell" attitude isn't doing you any good. Take off your blinders & wake up & smell the coffee. Call hell whatever you like....lake of fire, eternal fire, eternal furnace, pit of fire, the Bible describes it multiple ways but it is a real place. Bunny, you sound wishy-washy. Are you some kinda hippie/flower child or something??? Even the atheists aren't real sure where you stand. I have basically said the same things over & over in multiple posts but you still insist on digging your heels in & won't accept the fact that the Bible tells you there is a hell AND that people will be going there someday. I urge you to make sure you aren't one of them!!!
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#50
08-09-2007, 10:40 AM
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Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Bunny, you asked for it. Let me break it down for you. You are correct that there are multiple interpretations/versions of the Bible. You are correct that there are multiple denominations of Christianity. I have already said as much several times. The fact of the matter is this...IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR, YOU WILL DIE AND GO TO HELL. All Christians should agree wholeheartedly on this one point. [/ QUOTE ] whether it's hell or just no afterlife I guess they're both a lot worse than an heavenly afterlife. But again, it seems to me that faith in jesus is necessary but not sufficient. I mean, it's like a fat person telling you he knows he needs to watch what he eats (faith), but eats mcdonalds 3 times a day (works) [ QUOTE ] Luke 6:46-49 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society [NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan] The Wise and Foolish Builders 46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete." [/ QUOTE ]
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