|
|
#41
03-31-2007, 07:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: On being self-centered
[ QUOTE ]
"The problem with all that is that there aren't happiness points, and you can't mathematicize happiness." Not sure what mathematicization is, but valuation and comparison are all you need. Some choices make you happier than other choices and some choices make other people less happy than other choices. You can approximate how your future choices will effect you and others based on experience. The question is how to act and why once you've done this approximation. If you don't like my examples the way they are, maybe add a couple zeros and the word "about" and I think they should be acceptable. "I guess you could argue that when I help others, I only do so for selfish reasons (i.e., it makes me happy to help), but I think that point of view is really solipsistic and wrong." More on this please. All I see right now is a claim and no support. [/ QUOTE ] You can't even really define happiness so neatly, and vague appeals to general images of happy are often in fact referring to several things. 
|
|
#42
03-31-2007, 07:22 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people say that being self-centered is a bad thing. Why? In some sense each individual is alone. Only he makes choices and only he is responsible for them. Does it follow that his fundamental - and only necessary - concern is how those choices effect him? If not, why should he worry about how those choices effect others in a way that is not rooted in his own happiness? Why should anyone consider anything but their own well-being? [/ QUOTE ] Just from an evolutionary POV (obviously not the whole picture), you have to consider that emotions have evolved without regard for the individual's well-being. It's about the propogation of far more than the individual, which is why we are so deeply compelled to help others.
|
|
#43
03-31-2007, 10:03 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
Time for a counterexample. Say a squad of soldiers is taking cover inside a house. Suddenly a grenade comes whizzing through a window, and before anyone else can react, one soldier throws himself upon it to shield the explosion, sacrificing himself for the others.
Is this an altruistic action? If you disregard a belief in the afterlife, this can not be in his own interest. He has his own motives for making this deed (honor, friendship bonds), but those motives are not selfish. People act of their own volition, but that does not necessarily mean every action they take is in their own interest.
|
|
#44
03-31-2007, 12:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
[ QUOTE ]
Time for a counterexample. Say a squad of soldiers is taking cover inside a house. Suddenly a grenade comes whizzing through a window, and before anyone else can react, one soldier throws himself upon it to shield the explosion, sacrificing himself for the others. Is this an altruistic action? If you disregard a belief in the afterlife, this can not be in his own interest. He has his own motives for making this deed (honor, friendship bonds), but those motives are not selfish. People act of their own volition, but that does not necessarily mean every action they take is in their own interest. [/ QUOTE ] One could argue that this is simply an example of an irrational or shortsighted action, and that all rational actions are inherently selfish. I find that the term selfish is pretty useless. Whenever someone throws that term at me, the argument I generally hear them making is something like this: "This is the choice that would make me happy if I were in your situation. Therefore, that is the choice you should make." This always strikes me as at best a non-argument, and at worst an example of their own complete self-centeredness. It would be much more productive if they said something like "You are being shortsighted, and here is why...", or "you have failed to take into account consequences X or Y when you were making your decision."
|
|
#45
03-31-2007, 06:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
Stuey,
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Emperor, Huh? Xorbie, I agree it isn't easy to define happiness and I agree that it is a combination of many things. But I think you can define it enough to show that each rational decision could be made with your own 'happiness' as the primary consideration. The question is, is this a worthwhile way for people to think and act? Why? If not, why not? [ QUOTE ] ... emotions have evolved without regard for the individual's well-being. It's about the propogation of far more than the individual, which is why we are so deeply compelled to help others. [/ QUOTE ] Very intersting. What's your source? I'd like to read about this. Don't have a counterargument except that maybe "emotions" - maybe you could clarify what you mean by this; the limbic system, maybe? - developed for some other reason. Higher-order happiness? Dunno. I always thought that it was the so-called innate desire to reproduce that was the mechanism that sustains species. Like I said, I'd love to read your source. Now I'm really curious about why humans developed a limbic system in the first place. Jigsaws, [ QUOTE ] People act of their own volition, but that does not necessarily mean every action they take is in their own interest. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I want to stay away from that argument. I think its very hard to support and I am not qualified to make claims about it. Again, I agree that every action is not necessarily based in the actor's own interest - I want reasons why it shouldn't be.
|
|
#46
03-31-2007, 09:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
[ QUOTE ]
El D, Yeah, people have talked about that. And that's why I'm on the East Coast spending my spring break with my brother and sister instead of partying/roadtripping/whatever with my friends. I chose to be here because it is way more gratifying for me. With this thread I was hoping to see a viable argument made against the guy that would rather party with his buds. We all know that these people exist and most people disapprove of their behavior, but I think I'm fine with it - at least for now. I probably wouldn't choose them as my friends but as long as it doesn't effect me, whatever makes them happy isn't gonna bother me. Its none of my business. [/ QUOTE ] There's no argument to be made here, other than by appealing to right and wrong. I'm not sure what you are looking for.
|
|
#47
03-31-2007, 09:43 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
[ QUOTE ]
Time for a counterexample. Say a squad of soldiers is taking cover inside a house. Suddenly a grenade comes whizzing through a window, and before anyone else can react, one soldier throws himself upon it to shield the explosion, sacrificing himself for the others. Is this an altruistic action? If you disregard a belief in the afterlife, this can not be in his own interest. He has his own motives for making this deed (honor, friendship bonds), but those motives are not selfish. People act of their own volition, but that does not necessarily mean every action they take is in their own interest. [/ QUOTE ] He might have had a bad life after, as he would not be able to live with the fact he didn't go with his beliefs and instincts, thinking he betrayed everything he stood for. This fate, in his mind, may be worse than death.
|
|
#50
04-01-2007, 10:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: On being self-centered
If your self centered and think about yourself, it may be difficult to work with people. Based upon that, it may be hard to become financially successful as most of the high net worth people work in a team based environment. (Unless your CEO of your own corp already)
Think about win/win and what's in it for 'them'. I've heard the expression: If you help others get what they want, you'll get 10x back.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
