50NL - I NEVER FOLD

[HandHack1]

I was in a situation like this the other night. No face cards on the board; no flush; no straight draw. A King hit the river and I went all in (a bluff) and the caller finally folded.

[Daniel LeClaire]

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This type of player is rarely folding to a 3 bet.

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Why is this?

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Because his VPIP is nearly 30. Players like that rarely fold after having put money in the pot PF. Especially when the raise is coming from the blinds and he has the button.

3 betting loose players OOP with weak hands is a recipe for disaster.

[cuQa]

I would c/r the flop or at least c/c flop donk turn but c/c all streets oop is quite crap ..

I tried to see some similar showdowns as well against some multiple streets barrelers, but I think there is one big problem with that..

Not much ppl double barrel or even throw out a 3rd barrel so imo your often throwing money off to the probably worse player than you and you win sometimes a little amount of between 30BB-40BB.

Even if you catch a player who threw out 3 barrels with air he won't be that braindead that he will keep that play so you won't have much chance to abuse his play.. and of course you often run into better hands and lose money while you try to catch some bluffs.

Another thing is if you catch bluffs the ppl will often c/b on river means that you win a ~20BB pot but if he improves he will fire a 3rd barrel what let you think, as you stated above, you have to call the riverbet as well what will cost you a lot more money than you will win in this situations.

In my opinion it's just a quite -EV play. Keep observing the others and do this kind of game when you did see the opponent showed some bluffs.

Hope this ain't a trash post =)

[cuQa]

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This type of player is rarely folding to a 3 bet.

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Why is this?

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Because his VPIP is nearly 30. Players like that rarely fold after having put money in the pot PF. Especially when the raise is coming from the blinds and he has the button.

3 betting loose players OOP with weak hands is a recipe for disaster.

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You can't say this in general. Of course you should watch out against who you 3-bet preflop with what kind of hands but there are enough players with similar stats that folds to a 3-bet ^^

[Antinome]

grunch-

I would call, check-call flop, lead turn.

The turn lead makes sure diamond draws are paying to see the river. It also looks a lot like the sort of slowplay line people like to take with an 8, because it reps the hand you have- a pair that beats a cbet or a draw.

[Daniel LeClaire]

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You can't say this in general. Of course you should watch out against who you 3-bet preflop with what kind of hands but there are enough players with similar stats that folds to a 3-bet ^^

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Okay then, IME I find guys that have a VP$IP of 30 or more rarely fold to 3 bets, especially when they have position.

[Abramovic]

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grunch-

I would call, check-call flop, lead turn.

The turn lead makes sure diamond draws are paying to see the river. It also looks a lot like the sort of slowplay line people like to take with an 8, because it reps the hand you have- a pair that beats a cbet or a draw.

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And if he calls turn lead? River is c/f?

[BalugaWhale]

boo

there is so much messed up thinking in this thread that i'm not even going to try, im just gonna let grunch take care of it

3bet or fold pf, leaning towards folding, call if he'll stack off with anything

if you're gonna call, and youre gonna call the flop, you gotta fold the turn

[matrix]

why is 3betting an option here preflop?

why why why why why why are people obsessed with 3betting small to middling pairs???

as played:

pre - standard
flop - meh

raise the turn. shutdown if called/raised.

He might well have overcards when he bets the turn - if we call we are giving him infinite odds to hit something that beats us. We have misely bluff catching pair.

It's rarely worth calling down 3 streets hoping villain is bluffing, or semi bluffing with a pair of 5's or something like that. You need a read on villain to know he's aggro enough to do that.

I would guess most players on this level would bet the river if they spike a K, for some players they'll only be betting the river like this if they hit the King and would give up on their bluff after you call the turn if they missed hitting the river.

If you're not raising the turn then fold. Calling is slowly meandering your stack around the fields of RIO then calling through the suburbs of spewsville. Yes sometimes you are good - more often than not we are beat. With no reads we have no idea what standards of hands he bets 3 streets with, if he's a bluffer etc so how can turning into a calling station be +EV?

[Daniel LeClaire]

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I would call, check-call flop, lead turn.

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What's the advantage of c/c flop & lead turn compared to c/r flop? They both cost you roughly the same amount. You still only fold out missed overs on the turn, only now you have given a free card. You are still getting raised by better too.