Cheating at a poker room?

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone seems to be confused by the preflop signals.
Tommy signaled to Sue that he wanted to raise postflop by stacking a large stack of red $5 chips on his cards. We are playing with $10 chips. After this signal, tommy raised, and Sue reraised and took the pot down.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct, we are all confused by this. And you didn't clear it up. What you seem to be saying is before he put in the raise, Tommy stacked a buncha chips on his cards. Then he put the raise in. Sue acted behind him. What we don't understand is why on earth Tommy NEEDS to signal Sue "I'm going to raise" when she's behind him? She'll get the same info in just as timely a manner when he actually does raise.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no vendeta against the Bellagio. The fact that they where colluding was also told to me by the poker player sitting next to me that had played against them on many occasions in the 5-10 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that clears a lot up.

Did he tell you about all the rigged flops on Pokerstars too?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Why would people who were cheating sit next to each other? If they were any good at cheating, wouldn't they want to sit across from each other?

[Don O]

easy solution. David should stop playing the "B".

[Diana Ross Fan]

Too many responses center around whether the cheating works or not. Reminds me of chip dumping threads. The point is that you have to stop it before the inept cheats become skilled ones.

TT that might slightly reduce the likelyhood of them cheating. But I think enough very good players have been known to collude in the past that we shouldn't accept it.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many responses center around whether the cheating works or not. Reminds me of chip dumping threads. The point is that you have to stop it before the inept cheats become skilled ones.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, you the suggestion is that they weren't cheating and that the fact that what they are accused of doing doesn't seem to be at all effective as cheating method suggests that it wasn't cheating.

you might conclude they are bad cheats, but i might conclude that OP is drawing the wrong conclusions

[SirWinsALot]

I just want to know if "David Troyer" is related to Verne Troyer and can get us all into the Playboy Mansion whenever we're nearby?

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to know if "David Troyer" is related to Verne Troyer and can get me into the Playboy Mansion whenever I'm in LA?

[/ QUOTE ]

FMP

[David Troyer]

Summary,
First of all, I’m not a new kid on the block. I have played poker 11 years and have 10,800 of live poker playing experience. The last 3 years, I have played exclusively no limit holdem in all the card rooms here in vegas.

I’ll admit that I may not have written my observations in a clear and consise matter. I am not trying to prove that their cheating method is good, clever or works, or that their signals work or don’t work.

I’m saying they are playing partners (most likely from the same bankroll) based on my observation of their play on table 31 Thursday aftertoon. That is why I went to the shift supervisor, filed a report with security, then filed a report with the Nevada gaming commission. Her vehement denying of any wrong doing to security, 15 minute talk with shift supervisor is also suspicious. She is this adamant about playing with a friend when there are 3 games going?

It is also obvious that the poker rooms take no special interest in protecting the poker players money from other cheating players. The same bellagio has the most extensive security system in vegas to protect the houses money from cheats, but not poker players from other cheats.

Nobody understood the team signals so here goes.

PREFLOP
Case 1 Neither has a hand.
He signals im going to muck, they both muck hand.
Obviously in this case no signal is needed even though they did signal

Case 2 He has a hand, she has anything
He signals he will raise, and she calls.
Once again, it doesn’t matter that he signals because she ALWAYS calls his raise.

Case 3, everybody missed this one, he doesn’t have a hand, she does.
He signals he is going to muck, she has time to look at her cards and and picks up a big hand. Instead of mucking, he now puts his hand down and RAISES instead of mucking because he knows she has a big hand behind.

POSTFLOP
When he raises postflop he wants her to
1. fold
2. call
3. reraise
I did not see the signals for 1 or 2 but witnessed the 3 reraise signal.

In addition to signals, he shows his cards to her preflop, giving her a huge advantage before she acts on her hand.

[TropAndEastern]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary,


Her vehement denying of any wrong doing to security, 15 minute talk with shift supervisor is also suspicious. She is this adamant about playing with a friend when there are 3 games going?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha. She gets accused of cheating and because she vigorously defends herself from such a strong accusation, that proves that it's true? I hope you realize how absurd that argument is. And on the other point, there have been times when I've gone to play with friends and we only want to be playing on the same table together. What's wrong with that?

[ QUOTE ]

PREFLOP
Case 1 Neither has a hand.
He signals im going to muck, they both muck hand.
Obviously in this case no signal is needed even though they did signal

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you wish everyone had such obvious tells?

[ QUOTE ]

Case 2 He has a hand, she has anything
He signals he will raise, and she calls.
Once again, it doesn’t matter that he signals because she ALWAYS calls his raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Another nice tell. By the way, in how many instances did you see this occur?

[ QUOTE ]

POSTFLOP
When he raises postflop he wants her to
1. fold
2. call
3. reraise
I did not see the signals for 1 or 2 but witnessed the 3 reraise signal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brilliant. You didn't see the 1st 2 signals, but you saw #3 once! One time, right? So how do you know? You'd have taken anything he did as the signal. He scratches his ear at that point...signal, he shuffles his chips...signal. Without seeing it multiple times, how can you be sure?

[ QUOTE ]

In addition to signals, he shows his cards to her preflop, giving her a huge advantage before she acts on her hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why does he need to ever signal her? And based on the fact that he's the one controlling all their actions, why is he sitting on her right hand side? Wouldn't it make more sense to be on her left? If they were cheating, they are the most incompetent cheats of all time and their actions, I think, help create better opportunities for you to take significant chunks of their buyins, rather than vice versa.

I hope Gaming Control appreciates you wasting their time.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary,
First of all, I’m not a new kid on the block. I have played poker 11 years and have 10,800 of live poker playing experience. The last 3 years, I have played exclusively no limit holdem in all the card rooms here in vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

and you have never run into sue or her boyfriend before? I cant walk into a card room on the strip without tripping over those two.