Rudy G's Tough Talk

[ItalianFX]

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

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No law = chaos. You have to give up some freedom to have security. I'm not saying I agree with the policies that Rudy may have to have secure borders or insure security through America, but I agree with his statement through my own interpretation.

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I don't disagree with you on "some" but I do strongly disagree with Rudy on "a great deal of".

Also, you're talking about security whereas Giuliani is talking about freedom.

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Rudy is saying a great deal of "discretion." You have to be able to believe in the President that he (or she) will make the best decisions possible. If you don't, then that is why you usually vote for someone else.

[pvn]

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

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No law = chaos. You have to give up some freedom to have security. I'm not saying I agree with the policies that Rudy may have to have secure borders or insure security through America, but I agree with his statement through my own interpretation.

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I don't disagree with you on "some" but I do strongly disagree with Rudy on "a great deal of".

Also, you're talking about security whereas Giuliani is talking about freedom.

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Rudy is saying a great deal of "discretion." You have to be able to believe in the President that he (or she) will make the best decisions possible. If you don't, then that is why you usually vote for someone else.

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And if my guy loses? I just get stuck with a guy I can't trust, too bad.

But for the fun of it, let's assume that you're right, I do have to cede to some warlord to ensure my own security.

Now, please explain why I must have the same "protector" that you do.

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And if my guy loses? I just get stuck with a guy I can't trust, too bad.

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Aren't we doing that now with George W.?

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But for the fun of it, let's assume that you're right, I do have to cede to some warlord to ensure my own security.

Now, please explain why I must have the same "protector" that you do.

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That's the price you pay for democracy I guess. Nobody said you have to live in the United States. There are laws in our country and that is just the way it is.

I voted for John Kerry in the last election, but I'm not boo-hoo'ing that Bush won.

[Kaj]

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

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IMO, Giuliani is basically a modern-day Liberal except when it comes to law enforcement and Big Brother. Then he's a Republican plus.

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

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I don't know any liberals that support Patriot Act or warrantless wiretapping, if that's your assertion. (politicians not included, of course)

[pvn]

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Now, please explain why I must have the same "protector" that you do.

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That's the price you pay for democracy I guess. Nobody said you have to live in the United States. There are laws in our country and that is just the way it is.

I voted for John Kerry in the last election, but I'm not boo-hoo'ing that Bush won.

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"that's just the way it is." Nice. Thanks for clearing that up.

[ItalianFX]

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Now, please explain why I must have the same "protector" that you do.

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That's the price you pay for democracy I guess. Nobody said you have to live in the United States. There are laws in our country and that is just the way it is.

I voted for John Kerry in the last election, but I'm not boo-hoo'ing that Bush won.

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"that's just the way it is." Nice. Thanks for clearing that up.

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What did you expect? Ok, go create your own gov't, elect your own President, and then do whatever you want. Is that better?

[Ron Burgundy]

Ah the old "no one forced you to live here" argument. As if most people could just relocate to another country on a whim.

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Ah the old "no one forced you to live here" argument. As if most people could just relocate to another country on a whim.

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If you're not with us you are against us

[ThaSaltCracka]

I would actually like to know what level of personal rights rudy would like, or expect, people to secede to fight terrorism. Something which he has no experience in fighting. I thing Rudy is just spouting the Neo Con line because he thinks its his best shot of being elected. Ultimately I think that speaks about what kind of person he is. IN many ways he is worse than Hilary, he says what he thinks people want to hear, but he doesn't even understand the stance he is "supporting".

[Copernicus]

"Something which he has no experience in fighting."

Nope, none at all. He only built the largest anti-terrorism unit in the world, with more NY a-t experts on the scene after the Madrid bombings and other major terrorist attacks as the FBI, and more translators of ME languages than in the entire Federal government.