Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)

[blackize]

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People on the Internet Forum, like Granny Mae, for many years have done a serious disservice to the fundamental question posed in this thread: Is online poker rigged; can the house participate in scamming its own players?

Of course, GM had his own agenda (affiliate, etc.) and every time a discussion of these topics was raised, GM and his cronies would beat the poster into submission.

Anyhow, to my post ...

I used to prop for AP. I was a prop from November 2003 until December 2006. Anyway, I (and a number of other props) noticed some strange stuff.

In November 2004, AP had about 150 props in its program. All of a sudden, we were notified that AP wanted at least 150 more props. This seemed odd ... 1) Most of the limit games in those days at AP were seemed to have at least 50% props who were multi-tabling. 2) In the regular rotation of players who were not props, there were very few. Mostly, we'd just get a few drop in players who cleared bonus, etc., and never returned. 3) So, the overhead with 300 props seemed to be a huge overhead, especially since the pay-scale at that time equaled MORE than 100% rake back for props.

So ... the new props came on board and in December 2004, a lot of props were getting systematically wiped out, week-by-week. It got to the point were the prop was lucky to make it to payday so that (s)he could be staked for the next week. Of course, it could be that all the props (at least a good portion of them) could have been running bad at once, but there were some strange things going on. During this period, there were some "regulars" who were new to the lineup, and who played unconventionally, if not poorly. In any event, some of these players seemed to pray on specific props.

In any event, I left the program in March 2005, just thinking that I was running bad and needed a break (plus, I had a lot of work with my regular job). Within a few weeks, I started getting e-mails from other props, asking me if I also "got wiped out." At that point, a number of us started comparing notes and we seemed to agree that some of these "new" players were taking us down with unconventional plays and lucky shots.

Of course, I still chalked it up to running bad and I got back into propping in the summer of 2005. Things seemed back to normal, and some of the old props also came back. We compared notes and some commented that it appears the "switch was turned off." We just laughed it off.

Anyhow, in December 2005, AP opened the table limits to 6. Now, they were running a huge prop program and allowing the pay to essentially double. They mandated that no prop could play below 3/6.

Anyway, within the next few months, some of these "new" players joined the lineup and started crushing the props. Mind you, my stats against the other props remained constant, but these outsiders (who should have been big losers) were crushing the games and the props, again, were left playing for weekly stake money.

Before these events, I was constantly booking big wins and had a constant win rate. After November, 2004, I never had a win that exceeded 10 BB. However, I had multiple sessions where I lost at least 50 BB. For what its worth, my win rate stayed constant (actually, it trended down as games tightened) on other sites.

I figured AP had an incentive to recoup the overhead associated with its prop program, while reaping the benefits of having the games populated to attract new customers. Eventually, I figured AP sponsored a few moles to pick off the props and keep that overhead low. Of course, I could have been running bad. I just always said, however, that these samples proved nothing, but I still had played enough poker to sense things out of whack.

I quit propping and put this behind me, so ... I don't have most of the HH's or anything that would show weird situations. Also, I had a few hands that were really stange that for whatever reason, DID NOT SHOW UP IN HH's. I even e-mailed support a few times for specific hands, and they never supplied the hands.

Cliff Notes: Former prop at AP formulated opinion that AP was using specific accounts to vulture on props to keep overhead low while maintaining the prop program. No hard evidence, maybe a bad player who had leaks and was running bad; yet, many other props experienced same things at the same time as this prop. Mostly a gut feeling and observation that things did not seem on the up and up. (Possible beta testing of the "super accounts"?)

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I had a similar experience propping at AP, except I don't know how you got contact info from other props. The only people I ever talked to about propping were the prop managers.

Luckily after I went busto they overpayed me and I was back in business elsewhere.

[comhood]

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Hi, I finished 4th in the 1000$ tournament (as monsterhood) where Potripper was revealed, and the most famous HH part is from)... can anyone tell me how i get in touch with the moderators? I want to show them parts of my HH as additional proof (though not everybody, obv) Anyone know how i do that? ty

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email to adanthar@gmail.com

forward it to me also please, mcaoxol@gmail.com

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are these guys moderators? I wont share my HH with random ppl... can a moderator plz answer this thread?

[blackize]

Adanthar is a mod.

[PartyGirlUK]

adanthar is a moderator and good/trustworthy guy

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I finished 4th in the 1000$ tournament (as monsterhood) where Potripper was revealed, and the most famous HH part is from)... can anyone tell me how i get in touch with the moderators? I want to show them parts of my HH as additional proof (though not everybody, obv) Anyone know how i do that? ty

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adanthar@gmail.com

if you can do me a favor, because abso HH's seem immune to pokertracker for no apparent reason, make sure they're importable on your end or bold the weirder looking hands

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]


I had a similar experience propping at AP, except I don't know how you got contact info from other props. The only people I ever talked to about propping were the prop managers.

Luckily after I went busto they overpayed me and I was back in business elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was with the propping program from (near) the beginning. All the Props were given a master list of other props and contact info.

I also knew seven other props in person due to the fact I recruited them to the prop program. Some time in 2005, a player released the list on the internet. From that point forward, props were not given a master list of other props (and the rules related to playing with/against other props were relaxed because we would no longer "know" who the other props were).

[traxamillion]

Seif be cheatin

[comhood]

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adanthar is a moderator and good/trustworthy guy

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Ok, i sent the potripper parts of my HH to him, and trusts him to only show relevant parts of it to others. Thx guys

[ReptileHouse]

Hi com,

A PM is probably best. To send a PM, click adanthar and select "send a private message" from there.

edit: bah. way too slow.

[comhood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I finished 4th in the 1000$ tournament (as monsterhood) where Potripper was revealed, and the most famous HH part is from)... can anyone tell me how i get in touch with the moderators? I want to show them parts of my HH as additional proof (though not everybody, obv) Anyone know how i do that? ty

[/ QUOTE ]

adanthar@gmail.com

if you can do me a favor, because abso HH's seem immune to pokertracker for no apparent reason, make sure they're importable on your end or bold the weirder looking hands

[/ QUOTE ]

im sorry adanthar.. didnt do that.. hope u can still read it though.. its not one part of his play, its the sum i can help with - notice how he folds to my JJ and QQ, and calls basically everything else? and reraises my K2, first time im stealing him?