Stars VIP Wild speculation

[1p0kerboy]

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I think they realized that 3 or 4 freerolls every Saturday for the SN's was kind of silly.

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Yeah, it was kinda silly now that I think about it.

Of course, more players made the tournaments last much longer which all of us ended up complaining about as well.

I guess people like us can always find something to bitch about. Maybe we're just getting old and cranky. (FWIW I'll be 30 in May)

[MicroBob]

Scottyy has already addressed this when he pointed out that for the vast majority taking part in the SN freeroll the time-commitment is going to be 2 hours or less.
Cutting down the time-commitment was clearly one of their goals.

I was whining last year about how sucky it could be when you are practically 'stuck' there from 1p to 5p or something because of the freerolls' staggered starts in 2006.

I went pretty deep in 3 of them one time and still didn't make much money and was mostly just bitter at being stuck there even later.

So they corrected that somewhat to be less of a time-commitment which I appreciate. But it still means having to show up every Saturday...blah blah blah...we've been around these issue 800 different ways.

Now Stars sees that 2/3 of their SN's don't even care enough about them to bother showing up...and will even pass up playing in them even when they are online and playing other tables because even they don't think it's worth the effort.

I think this kind of apathy and even antipathy may have surprised Stars somewhat since they are just GIVING us money afterall.
And they are also hearing that even some of those in the minority who actually do play them who also say they don't like them but only play them just because they are there.


However, you do have quite a few Plat's and Gold's who try to satellite into these things.
Some of them might do it just because there is an overlay on an entry compared with the FPP's you spend in the sat and they feel similarly 'obligated' as SN's like you and me to just chase after the EV when it's there.

But I suspect that most of these plat's and gold's who satellite their way in truly buy into the excitement factor far more than the SN's do.

My friend IRL who is MAYBE a break-even player and is usually gold-level but very rarely makes it to platinum freaking loves these things.
He placed deep in the $20k one week and then went deep in the $50k the following week and was pretty pumped. But he was really into these things even before the successful results.
As mentioned earlier, the alure and the excitement of the prize-pool is really attractive to him and he digs spending the occasional Saturday competing in such a tourney or two when he's available.

He really seems to look forward to the $100k on the last Saturday of the month...whereas I look at it and go, "yippy-freaking-skip...have another freeroll in the mix today."

[1p0kerboy]

Good post Bob.

In your professional opinion, do you think Stars should have a freeroll for the various lower groups (Silver/Gold/Platinum) and let Supernovas play in them if they choose? Many of us probably wouldn't because it would be pretty low EV but perhaps some of the lower end Supernovas would enjoy it.

Then perhaps they could have the drawing for Supernovas only who earn a certain amount of points in a week/month.

Just throwing some more ideas out there for discussion because I have nothing better to do. Actually it's pretty sad how often I'm on here posting. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[99killed]

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But I suspect that most of these plat's and gold's who satellite their way in truly buy into the excitement factor far more than the SN's do.

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i have some micro-stakes friends IRL that are knocking at my door to play these when i can't just to split 50/50 w/ me. they think these freerolls are the greatest thing ever cuz they are used to tiny prize-large field type.

i actually like them coz i throw them into my normal saturday multitabling mix. the 50k is the only one worth anything though. ~$80 just to cash isnt bad.

but i def skipped a few this summer cuz i wanted to go outside.

PS: 1pokerboy-- see ya later at 200nl!

[1p0kerboy]

FREEROLL IDEA #1,649,876

Triple shootout.

Rounds 1&2 are played during the week (Sunday-Friday) and run as soon as a table gets filled.

Every player can play at his/her convenience (as long as it is a time when others are wanting to play as well).

Only the final table is on Saturday.

Advantages: Could have a more flexible payout schedule and players would get to play at their convenience.

Disadvantages: We would then have table selection in a tournament (unless registrants names were blocked until the table started).

Props?

[sethypooh21]

It's true that I am looking at this program in the light of what would be best for me personally, and I understand that the main point of the SN program is to get more people to go from 50k-100k vpps. That said, each additional player PS gets to go from 500k to the 800k range is worth a lot more to them, so it makes some sense to try to offer incentives in that range also. As I've said earlier, the 500k-Million slog is such an all or nothing thing at present the I imagine I might be the only one who just won't think it's worth it.

[NewGuy]

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I think low level players are drawn to what for them is a large number freeroll. They really don't do the math on it.

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Some do.

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They just love to have the hope of playing. Much like poor people with lottery tickets.


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Mentality of SuperNovas <200K = same as poor people buying lottery tickets? Wow.

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Still I think Stars would get the same marketing value from giving away 3 $215 Million tickets as from the freerolls without having any of the issues the freerolls have.


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For some players they would, for others they would not. Please read the posts about Gold/Plats/low-level Novas.

Not every lower-volume player thinks about promotions the way you and other 500K-1M VPP players do. Some players enjoy the chance for a big score, some want to maximize their EV, some enjoy a weekly event to look forward to, some like playing satellites to get into a "big event", some prefer a free seat in more smaller tourney over cash or fewer seats in big tourneys, etc. etc.

[NewGuy]

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It's true that I am looking at this program in the light of what would be best for me personally, and I understand that the main point of the SN program is to get more people to go from 50k-100k vpps. That said, each additional player PS gets to go from 500k to the 800k range is worth a lot more to them, so it makes some sense to try to offer incentives in that range also.

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I'm also looking at this selfishly and want to maximize EV for <200K VPPs since that's where I'll be.

That said, I agree with just about everything that's been said that there SHOULD be a better incentive from 500K->750/800K. It just makes sense from a business perspective for Stars to dangle a carrot in front of those players that are on the fence about stopping at 500K to make them go for the next level.

The tricky part is balancing the cost since everyone from 800K+ will get the same incentive and would have played their volume anyway, but there have been a lot of good ideas thrown around (e.g., another nice bonus and/or a bump in multiplier @ 750K) that wouldn't cost too much and offer a good incentive.

I also think the debate gets muddied unneccessarily- the promo for 100k-200k has just about ZERO to do with the proper incentive level for 750K players. They aren't mutually dependent at all- Stars can figure out a good incentive for low Novas/fish/low-level players AND a good one for 750K type independently.

This is simply a question of how to properly invest an amount of marketing $s targeted at each customer segment. I think there has been a lot of good logic showing that Stars marketing $s wisely spent on the 750K-800K incentive level has an extremely good chance of showing a high ROI from a total cost vs. increased marginal revenue basis.

[MicroBob]

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Good post Bob.

In your professional opinion, do you think Stars should have a freeroll for the various lower groups (Silver/Gold/Platinum) and let Supernovas play in them if they choose? Many of us probably wouldn't because it would be pretty low EV but perhaps some of the lower end Supernovas would enjoy it.

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Yeah, maybe.
If it was a $20-value entry or lower then I wouldn't feel as bad about skipping them and I doubt other SN's would really care very much either.
As it is now, skipping a $50-$60 value MTT doesn't feel quite so good to me. That's missing out on a greater amount of the value of being an SN in the first place.

I definitely like the idea of a drawing each week if you hit the VPP requirement for that week. Of course I'm assuming that the drawing is for more than $3.

A way to combine these two options is to be eligible for the freeroll at a certain VIP requirement OR you can opt-out and be entered in a slightly less-valuable drawing.
So if you are in the mood for a slightly higher EV tourney that day then you can go for it. But if you feel like skipping it you aren't missing out on very much compared with what you can get in the drawing.


The triple-shootout idea seems somewhat reasonable too.
Obviously I was earlier pushing for SN SNG's available whenever during the week. So that as opposed to being forced to play every Saturday you get to CHOOSE when you want to play.

But the triple-shootout thing is a half-decent middle-ground I think. Even closer to my idea if you gave the winner a Saturday-final TICKET that he can use on any Saturday he likes or something like that.

Big problem with that idea is that I think you have some cash-game players who are even more averse to playing SNG's than they are to playing regular MTT's.
There is a decent enough percentage of HATE-ALL-TOURNAMENTS types who are speaking up that I think they need to be considered.
but if Stars is going to insist on running various tourneys and freerolls for excitement-factor then the idea of getting to choose when you get to play is the biggest attraction to me.

[NewGuy]

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A way to combine these two options is to be eligible for the freeroll at a certain VIP requirement OR you can opt-out and be entered in a slightly less-valuable drawing.
So if you are in the mood for a slightly higher EV tourney that day then you can go for it.

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If we take this one step further, I think we may have the closest thing to a perfect compromise yet.

Stars could divide whatever amount of SuperNova incentive $s they decide to budget/spend into 2 pools (freeroll + drawing) and then let the free market determine exactly what the value is to a) invest time in freeroll vs. b) enter a drawing. (This could be altered over time to reflect # of SuperNovas / how effective Stars perceive promo to be.)

Example:

Stars allocates $X/week in 2008 for Nova

50-75% of $X is put into freeroll prize pool each week
25-50% of $X is put into drawing pool each week

After a week or two, people would get a very good idea of the EV of the 2 options, and then could choose whichever one had the most utility to them each and every week.

This could be implemented by having every SuperNova automatically registered for a "drawing tournament", then if they choose to, they could unregister from that and register for a freeroll.

Anyone see any downside to this?
1) Fixed $/week for Stars
2) People can opt for drawing, which is close to a cash bonus and requires no time commitment
3) People who want a MTT freeroll / chance at a big score have the option
4) Everyone gets to choose whether to try to extract the maximum EV possible or just take the easy expected cash value from drawing (could possibly a bonus instead, but then $ amount wouldn't be fixed)
5) If SuperNovas do nothing, they are automatically enrolled for at least the drawing, so they don't have to remember to do anything each week