NL Bots on Full Tilt

[pokerrn72]

you nailed it. nh.

[billyjex]

HAHAHA "THE SYSTEM"

[KurtSF]

Thanks for posting nation. You've seemed trustworthy in the past, and I'm inclined to believe you.

But the evidence is daunting. Your explanation doesn't address the similarity of the post-flop stats. Is Chuck making all the decisions for the people in his livingroom and they are just pushing the buttons?

Could you convince any of them to come and explain?

[PokerDiddy]

Didn't read though all of the thread (it was really long), but are there really external bots that play so well they can beat humans? Poker is so complex, compared to chess for instance, and the AI litterature I have read suggest that a NL Hold'em bot is a major undertaking.

That said, computer science and programming is evolving and someone could have done a good playing bot software.

If the bot play according to a predetermined pattern, I would assume that it is rule based. If it is rule based, then it should be quite easy to figure out how it play and see if it is very repetitive, based on same cards.
True, for a player it would be costly to figure it out, which would require calling to see the pocket cards.
I would assume that the poker rooms have some vested interest in staving of bots and cheaters.

I would suggest that Full Tilt in this case, since the base line work was done so well, that they respond and post a play history. If it was a bot, it will be noticable pretty quickly based on the pocket cards.

[Raised2Win]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, as someone else has pointed out, it would help to have PAHUD stats have a couple of decimals. If one guy after 100k hands is 14.24 and the other is 13.67, I think that's a huge difference. Then I could see it being a few friends playing together (maybe like a frat) and having one guy teach them. This would explain the discrepancy in bb/100 of the two players on the right (the right-most player being a loser). This would also be consistent with them playing at the same time and not playing on the same tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

After 100k hands ofcourse there is a still difference in decimals in preflop actions, first of all the action before the bots turn matters alot and 100k isn't enough to take away the randomness of other peoples actions before the bots.

If that didn't make any sense example;

-bot folds JJ after there is a raise and a reraise.-

bot1: is dealt JJ and has to fold because there is a raise and a reraise.
bot2: is dealt JJ and nobody raises before him.

100k hands isn't enough to take away that randomness

[pyedog]

Man I'm really skeptical that unique human players could have such identical stats over 100K+ hands. I mean they're not just identical in the preflop stats, which maybe would be possible with a very strict set of rules and no tilt, but they're also identical in all of the other postflop stats.

For example, isn't their c-bet percentage exactly 100% for all 4 users? I don't have access to the image anymore but that's what I remember.

So when Chuck and his buddies raise AdKh in EP and get 4 or 5 callers then they will continuation bet on a flop of 7c6c5c for 75% of the pot in a 5 or 6 way pot? And they will make those c-bets every single time? That is the best fixed strategy that they could come up with? I can understand if they have a C-bet of 100% in heads up or 3-way pots, but in multiway pots too?

Correct me if I'm wrong about my understanding or recollection of these stats. But that sounds like the behaviour of a mediocre bot to me.

[cts]

Awesome thread OP, just read the whole thing. Looking forward to a response from FTP, this is a little scary, the fishies' $ should be going to you guys, not the bots.

[Ratamahatta]

Nice job sherlock. Even if he is using a bot, now he will quietly cash out, change accounts and fix his bot.

[Fat Nicky]

anyone wanna lay odds that full tilt comes here and tells us they already conducted a thorough investigation and case closed??

[delta k]

I never liked Nation so I'm not going to believe him now. But it doesn't matter because as far as I'm concerned, the fact that full tilt is rigged is a bigger problem for me than bots at 200 full.