Ask the Lounge About Men

[Blarg]

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hello lounge men,

I've got a question for you.

Have you ever known someone (a buddy or brother) who has become involved in a relationship to the point you felt it changed him in a negative way? I mean like changed his personality?

I know someone who is pissed off that his brother has become engaged to a girl because he hates the girl and feels that she has "ruined" his brother. He feels that she has changed his brother's personality significantly and that he's not the same fun-loving guy he once was. I thought his reaction was pretty immature, like a huge overreaction, but wondered if any of you guys have ever seen anything like this before.

When I try to think of all the girls I know who have become involved in relationships or gotten married, I can't think of a one whose personality changed in a negative sense. Do you think it's a jealousy thing on the part of the brother or do some girls actually have the effect of ruining a perfectly fun guy? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

(Is this a terrible question or what? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

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I think this is an awesome question, and I've seen this effect many times.

I suppose the equivalent in women is the ones who suddenly become very modest in dress because their guy is a prude or super jealous and the idea of someone seeing his wife in less than a burkha throws him into a rage.

But a lot of women try to get the guy to be emotionally dependent on them and them alone. This is why you see a lot of older guys with no friends at all, or very very few, while their wives have tons of friends. Their wives/girlfriends have disapproved of and slowly worked all their guy's friends out of their lives. Now the guy is stuck with his wife's friends, the friends they've only made together as a couple, or nothing.

So, a guy can be drastically changed by this phasing out of friends and narrowed social sphere. He can also be changed in the more obvious ways. If a girl insists her guy dress better, he's not going to run out and be climbing trees with those clothes. If she wants him to keep her company at horse shoes, he's probably going to at least feign an interest in horses, and have less time for his buddies. If she tells him to drink less, he may stop going to bars with his friends; to take her out a lot, he'll have less time to watch sports with friends.

Katy, I am curious why you would think it was pretty immature of your friend to think that, and a huge overreaction. After all, he knows his brother and his habits well. Who else would be in such a good position to see how his brother's personality changed? Are you sure you're not just doing that typical girl thing of saying anything that could possibly be critical of a female must be wrong or nasty or chauvinistic or not properly exalting someone's supermom status or something?

[Sniper]

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personally, i've pretty much given up on the whole thing, which is sad, b/c he's a genuinely nice guy who just made a mistake

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If your friend doesn't think he's made a mistake, why do you?

[Blarg]

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personally, i've pretty much given up on the whole thing, which is sad, b/c he's a genuinely nice guy who just made a mistake

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If your friend doesn't think he's made a mistake, why do you?

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This seems merely rhetorical.

[DrewDevil]

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There's something to be said for that, but then again, why is it that non-religious or agnostic people have to tolerate religious people pushing their views on them all the time even when they've been told in no uncertain terms that they are just not interested? Why is it okay for someone to think that others' right to their beliefs, and to not be pestered about them, is so much less than their own? It's like a lot of religious people think they're on a special social plane that deserves to be far more abusive and selfish than others, and that it's to be taken for granted that agnostics/atheists just have to put up with any and every amount of it, whenever and wherever. It's like being chained to an intermittently crying two-year-old who actually thinks he's vastly brighter and better than everybody else.

For people like myself who have grown up around a lot of hard-core born-agains, this can be a real problem and bring any social situation imaginable to a crashing stop on a dime as you have to try to make yet another gracious escape. And even while being needled and disrespected so thoroughly. This can be very abusive and, if you've been through it, enormously passive-aggressive.

If you haven't been around people that try to convert you like crazy, like I have, maybe it's hard to even imagine what I'm talking about. But some of these guys are just relentless and truly make it virtually impossible to be friends with them. Having to live with your own family doing that to you would be enough to bring me to the brink of madness. Imagine not even being able to talk to your own mother much because you know that Jesus is riding herd on her constantly prompting her to bring him up again. "Oh, by the way, did I forget to mention Jesus ..." Arggg!!!

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As someone who used to be a pretty hardcore Bible-thumper, I'll give you a little insight. The born-agains keep bringing up Christianity and trying to save you because (1) the Bible tells them to, and (2) to them, your lack of faith is unhealthy and they don't want you to die/go to hell. It's kind of like trying to get a heavy smoker to quit, to them. They may even know that you don't like it but they're focused on your hereafter.

Not that that makes it any less annoying. And even when I was a Bible beater, I never did much "witnessing" anyway, it creeped me out to creep everyone else out.

[katyseagull]

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Your friend might be jealous, but not of his brother and his wonderful girlfriend, but of the girlfriend taking away his brother. Time that the brother used to spend on guy's night out is now time with his girlfriend. Consequently, his friends and his brother perceive that he's not as much fun anymore -- he's not going out with them.

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The more I think about it the more I feel this is what's going on. First of all, my friend can't stand the girl. But secondly, my friend's brother is no longer interested in hanging out, drinking beer with the guys, and going out with them and doing what they always used to do on weekends, for the past 10 years.

Now is this the girl's fault I ask you? Maybe he is just into this girl. Why is it her fault that his priorities shifted?


Basically the guy thinks that his brother is too solicitous of his girlfriend, but also has become stuffy (for lack of a better word), patronizing and dismissive towards him. Whether it's true or not I don't know. (He does act a little uptight and superior but I thought it was because he was trying to be all mature [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ). Anyway, he (the brother) seems like a nice enough guy to me. I can't tell if he's changed really but I think it's the fact that he doesn't want to hang out with his old buddies and family memebers that is the real issue here. And I guess when my friend pops over to chat and have a beer, he senses that his presence is an imposition and that they are sort of rolling their eyes at him and he really thinks it is the fiance's fault.

I agree with you, Wookie, I think it's an issue of my friend being jealous that the fiance stole his brother's attention and time.

[Blarg]

Katie, I found a fun article at yahoo today. Here's the part I'll bring into this thread in its entirety.

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I Can't Stand Your Friends

Your partner's circle of friends probably come in three different categories: a perfect package, nice enough, and how the hell can the two of you be friends? In that last category, there are all kinds of crazies-maybe she's too controlling, or maybe he's a bad influence. Whatever the case, know your audience. You may not like the friends, but your partner has more history with them than with you. So while they may not rank high on your personal list, keep it to yourself. Boxing out a man's friends is a relationship deal breaker, according to 83 percent of men we surveyed. And 62 percent of women would end a relationship if a guy doesn't get along with her friends.


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The whole thing is at, and actually deserves quoting, but I don't want to lose the focus of this post.

5 Secrets You Should Keep from your Partner, on yahoo

[katyseagull]

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Boxing out a man's friends is a relationship deal breaker, according to 83 percent of men we surveyed. And 62 percent of women would end a relationship if a guy doesn't get along with her friends.


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That article looks interesting! I will try to read it when I get home.

Here's my question though, what if it's simply the guys choice to hang out with the annoying, bitchy girlfriend. What if she is not "boxiing out" his friends at all. Can't a guy change? Isn't it possible that some guys want to just hang with a bitchy girl and be solicitious of her, and shun their old crowd and artistic endeavors because they've grown bored with them? Or is that just retarded thinking on my part? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

The tactic reminds me of Dirty Harry's way of stopping crimes by abusing the crooks so much that they get off scot free instead of getting caught. It feels so good, sure, but the end result is disaster.

I know of course what you're saying, but it strikes me as immensely impractical that some Christians can't find better ways of trying to bring people into the fold than by completely alienating themselves from others and acting like a sort of demented one-note robot. As salesman ship tools go, that set of qualities is a big loser.

Now, I have known hard core Christians that would respect me and only interject their faith when it seemed like it could possibly have some relationship to a subject at hand, or not bring a social interlude crashing to a halt and make everyone unhappy. What a relief and exception they were! Now THESE were good spokesmen for Christianity and more likely to win converts.

I think it's no small coincidence that these were the people I saw manifesting the best of the Christian spirit in their daily living, too. Many of those who would like to pretend to have good Christian spirits are actually quite hostile toward and dismissive of others. One famous preacher I saw a lot in college would call passing girls, even quite modestly dressed, wh*res all the time. If someone did that to someone's sister or girlfriend in public, I couldn't blame him a bit for flattening the guy in response. Some things are just WRONG, no matter how much faith you pretend to have. I refuse to believe that Christ was that evil-spirited.

[Blarg]

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Boxing out a man's friends is a relationship deal breaker, according to 83 percent of men we surveyed. And 62 percent of women would end a relationship if a guy doesn't get along with her friends.


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That article looks interesting! I will try to read it when I get home.

Here's my question though, what if it's simply the guys choice to hang out with the annoying, bitchy girlfriend. What if she is not "boxiing out" his friends at all. Can't a guy change? Isn't it possible that some guys want to just hang with a bitchy girl and be solicitious of her, and shun their old crowd and artistic endeavors because they've grown bored with them? Or is that just retarded thinking on my part? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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If by that you're asking if Stockholm Syndrome is a natural human reaction, then Yes!

Seriously, though, someone who is emotionally abused -- and it happens equally to both sexes -- can come to accept his situation and even defend it. Who after all wants to admit to having become emotionally crippled or dependent? You won't find a lot of takers on that one. You will, however, find plenty of people in that situations who when asked when they're doing will say Great! or Fine, or start avoiding you so they don't have to answer the question anymore.

[Sniper]

Blarg,

You dismiss my earlier question as rhetorical... and now you equate change with stockholm syndrome?

Isn't it possible that a guy might just enjoy the company of a woman more than his buddies, even if his friends don't like the girl?